Have to agree with everyone else. I don't think it helps much to use this season's stats, or to use the odd starting point of after the end of last year's streak. It's very reasonable to question whether or not McGrady will be productive again after the injury. But we can't pretend that McGrady as a Rocket was always putting up the numbers he did during 2008-09.
Do the numbers change when we look at Tracy's entire stint with the Rockets and not just the time period, dating back to last year even, that he's been injured?
You know, sir, you should really get tired of trying to make people think Tracy McGrady isn't alot worse than he is... ...I mean, so many people can quantify poor and unbalanced teammates as non-factors in McGrady's own inefficient play, it makes me wonder what some people are actually expecting to see. I mean, besides heart and courage and toughness and a matching handbag. I keep hearing this thing about McGrady's efficiency, or lack of efficiency. And in all honesty, it wouldn't be sane to totally ignore the fact that McGrady has played the balance of his career offensively in volume. Starting back with Doc Rivers in Orlando, who figured that the only chance the Orlando Magic had to win was to give McGrady the ball and turn him loose. I don't really see how efficient anybody can be, including McGrady, when the rest of his teammates couldn't shoot silly-string out of their noses. Again, McGrady's shot selection has at times been bad, which lends itself to another argument I'm much more ready to believe is closer to true about McGrady (that he doesn't seem to know when to step back and when to take over), but sometimes (an awful lot of the time), one player's efficiency is directly related to his teammates' productivity. I know that's a novel concept around here, but bear with me... I don't think anybody really paid attention to how "bad" and "inefficient" a game Kobe Bryant played yesterday. He shot like 4-for-12 or something like that in a game seven. And say what you will about how overmatched the Rockets were or how the Lakers were on cruise control for the balance of the series...that's not a Kobe-like performance. So why the heck didn't Bryant go ballistic on the Rockets and score 50 or something? I'd say it had something to do with how well everybody else played, especially the Lakers' big people...but that would be like saying there's water in the ocean. We need something more sinister and convoluted around here in order to have a really good discussion about something totally stupid. What does anybody suppose would happen, just for grins, if there were less of a need for McGrady to be "T-Mac", and more of a need to be an all-around player? What would it be like for McGrady to have to play with a point guard who could make as good a decision with the basketball as he could? Or a shooter who was deadly if you left him open to chase McGrady around the court? Maybe you could do with McGrady what most everybody with more than two functioning brain cells winds up doing...you give McGrady a role to play and have him focus on playing that role. You don't give him the keys to a clunker offense...you fine-tune the machine and make McGrady one of the pistons in the engine. McGrady is your failsafe when things break down, not your crutch because nobody else can figure out what to do. And you can only do that if you have guys on the team that can play and hold their own. Again, especially around Yao, these Rockets start to understand how much easier Yao made the game for them against Portland (even though Yao was largely "inefficient" himself), and they actually go out and win because of that, and McGrady's the reason why that didn't happen earlier. Beautiful. Dollars to doughnuts, BlackKnight, that somebody unfurls some of those stats that say I'm wrong and that McGrady hurls more junk than a frat boy pledge. Can't blame'em, really. Heck of a lot easier to make a mess than to make sense...
Cosigned. "Just the Numbers"? The basis of this entire thread is SKEWED. You only provided the numbers for a period where McGrady played injured. Unless you were blinded by hate, you could clearly see TMac played on one leg since the beginning of this season. He should've clearly ended his season early last year, but after Yao went down, he opted to put it off and continue our 22-game win streak. Honestly, we had no chance to win that j*zz series, but he came to place regardless and pushed us to a Game 6. What's with the hate? If you're going to instigate a flaming fest, at least provide unaltered/unbiased numbers for everyone to consider.
I don't think I was ignoring the streak ... T-Mac was very good during the streak and particularly outstanding the first 9 games after Yao went down. I'm merely pointing out when his decline started up to today -- it's hard to miss when it started. In his final 16 games that season he shot 35.5% and 18.3% from three and his struggles carried over into this season. I also pointed out his best Houston season and best Orlando season. I don't think I was being dismissive at all. But where? I'm actually looking for good arguments because I'm sure they exist. Maybe just replacing Rafer Alston was the reason for the boost (certainly helped). Maybe T-Mac will adapt, fit in great and create more open shots for guys like Yao and Brooks, or they create more open shots for him. Maybe the Rockets can't sustain the offensive numbers they showed in nearly 50 games without T-Mac this season for an 82-game season next year. However, you can't add T-Mac to this roster we just saw, play him heavy minutes and really not expect the Rockets' 46-47% team FG% (a percentage that was up there with the big boys) to drop. I think Houston would be hard-pressed to maintain that efficiency if they add a fairly inefficient shooter who has played the role of alpha-male in the offense the past 9 seasons. While very important, I understand FG% and defensive FG% are not the tell-all... there's threes, turnovers, offensive rebounds -- all numbers that impact possessions and points per possession. But how will T-Mac impact the Rockets bottom line? No secret the Rockets regular season success the last several years was because of their defense, the only characteristic of their team that would have been considered "elite". But it was painful to watch an offensively efficient machine like the Jazz simply hit shots at a clip of 47-50% while the Rockets surrounded a star who could get his own shot, but hit it at a 41% clip. If Artest and/or Wafer walk, then all bets are off... but if they come back, even putting the drama aside, I think you may have to bring in a different player.
What about how Morey said T-Mac is statistically the best perimeter player in the league at getting others easy buckets? Or the Rockets record without T-Mac (not this season, but since he's been here) You can't say T-Mac is detrimental to the team based on statistics from a season where he was playing on a knee that needed microfracture surgery...
Let me know what numbers you want to see and I'll try to crunch them. Here is every season with McGrady, including this year, compared to what we saw this season with this roster without him. <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"><tr><td align=center bgcolor="#000000"><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>WITH T-MAC</B></font></td><td colspan=2 align=center bgcolor="#000099"><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>MCGRADY</B></font></td><td colspan=8 align=center bgcolor="#000000"><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>ROCKETS</B></font></td><td colspan=5 align=center bgcolor="#666666"><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>OPPONENT</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B> </B></font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#cc0033"><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>Season</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>FG%</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>FGA</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>FG%</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>FGA</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>3P%</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>3PA</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>O-REB</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>REB</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>T</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>PTS</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>FG%</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>FGA</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>3P%</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>3PA</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>PTS</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>Record</B></font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>2004-05</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.431</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>21.3</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.444</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>78.4</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.360</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>18.7</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>10.8</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>42.5</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>13.2</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>95.3</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.423</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>78.5</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.345</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>16.5</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>91.4</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>49-29</font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#eeeeee"><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>2005-06</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.406</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>21.5</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.436</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>77.9</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.328</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>18.4</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>10.9</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>42.4</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>13.0</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>93.1</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.425</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>77.2</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.369</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>18.2</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>91.6</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>27-20</font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>2006-07</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.431</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>20.8</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.448</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>79.5</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.383</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>23.3</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>10.7</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>43.7</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>13.4</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>97.7</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.427</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>79.6</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.343</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>16.4</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>91.6</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>50-21</font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#eeeeee"><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>2007-08</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.419</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>19.8</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.445</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>81.5</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.340</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>20.7</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>12.5</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>45.0</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>12.5</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>96.1</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.431</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>79.8</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.360</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>14.0</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>91.3</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>46-20</font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>2008-09</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.388</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>13.9</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.438</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>79.3</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.359</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>20.2</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>10.6</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>42.0</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>13.1</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>96.5</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.453</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>81.6</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.325</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>15.2</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>94.8</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>20-15</font></td></tr><tr><td align=center bgcolor="#000000"><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>W/O T-MAC</B></font></td><td colspan=2 rowspan=4 align=center valign=middle bgcolor="#000099"><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>N/A</B></font></td><td colspan=8 align=center bgcolor="#000000"><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>ROCKETS</B></font></td><td colspan=5 align=center bgcolor="#666666"><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>OPPONENT</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B> </B></font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#cc0033"><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>Season</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>FG%</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>FGA</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>3P%</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>3PA</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>O-REB</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>REB</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>T</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>PTS</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>FG%</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>FGA</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>3P%</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>3PA</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>PTS</B></font></td><td align=center><font face=arial size=1 color=#ffffff><B>Record</B></font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#eeeeee"><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>2008-09</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.465</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>79.8</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.387</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>20.2</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>10.4</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>43.7</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>13.5</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>99.9</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.438</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>82.5</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.381</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>16.3</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>94.1</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>33-14</font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>Final 30</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.469</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>79.0</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.381</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>20.0</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>10.1</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>43.2</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>13.6</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>98.4</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.430</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>82.6</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>.386</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>15.3</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>92.0</font></td><td align=right><font face=arial size=2 color=#000000>22-8</font></td></tr></table>
I would like to know the answer to this one: When will Tmac be "healthy" again? The optimists and the McGrady diehards like to point out that a HEALTHY Tracy McGrady would put us into championship contention level and make us legit contenders. But...is he going to be HEALTHY again? Apologists would like to say "He doesn't have to be 100% back just at least 80%" But....what IS exactly 80%? We would like to haggle on what we would want out of a HEALTHY McGrady but 1) it doesn't work like that and 2) McGrady won't negotiate like that. He was a star and won't accept anything less once he comes back. Sure, he'll cede some of the alpha dog to Yao but that's probably more out of obligation than respect. But what happens when he has a hot shooting night? Next day it'll be, "I'm back baby!" and we'll all eat that up and expect that a HEALTHY Tmac is back. Bottom line is: a HEALTHY McGrady is not going to come back ever again. So we shouldn't expect any hopes to come into fruition if the sentence starts with "If McGrady is healthy"
healthy is relative. healthy in terms of back to when he was in his prime, then obviously no. that's never going to happen. when i say healthy, i mean, his knee isn't sore anymore. that's a reasonable expectation no?? as we've seen the past 2 years, when he took those inflammatory injections for that knee, he's played superb. his best games (the playoffs and a few this year) are when he did that. so i'm "assuming" the microfracture surgery will remove any soreness associated with the knee, and he can be relatively "pain-free," then yes, i consider that tracy "healthy." sure, he'll lose a lot of the athleticism/quickness that once made him so super in his prime, but the 07-08 tracy wasn't extremely athletic or quick, but he was still all-nba. so people need to stop assuming tracy is healthy means a prime tracy.
i respect your opinion and like that you're one of the few that recognize healthy does not mean 13 in 30 Tmac but you have to at least agree that the injuries has taken a toll on his shooting accuracy. The first year he was here, when he was still relatively healthy, McGrady's jumpers were a thing of beauty. That elevation he had during his shots was the difference maker. The past few seasons, that elevation is almost nonexistent. YES, you can blame that on the ailing back and the knee issues but even if those injuries subside, that elevation is gone. And without elevation on your jumper, your shot is jacked. Either he needs to find some rare way to get that elevation back AFTER those surgeries or he'll have to rely on the flat-footed Mario Elie/Brent Barry shooting style...both options aren't what we want to see I'm sure.
If any of have seriously taken a look at Tracy McGrady in Game 7's, Those numbers are not pretty at all. 2007 Playoffs vs Jazz http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270505010 2005 Playoffs vs Mavericks http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=250507006 2003 Playoffs vs the Pistons http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=230504008 Hopefully somebody can do the averages or find them somewhere, because I'm not doing the math now.
To be fair with Tracy, He is one of the few players who can consistently make great passes to Yao. The other being Shane and Rafer.
25.7ppg, 5.7rpg, 8.7rpg, 38.6fg%, 18% 3pt, 2 bpg again the shooting #s are very poor. but have you looked at kobe bryant's recent game 7s? it's even worse
that's not right. he shot 43% that year, so there was no way he was a "great" jumpshooter that year. yes his elevation and athleticism were there, but fg% wise, he was never an efficient player like a lebron or wade. he never was and never will be. the problem with tracy this year due to the knee is that he's not able to move around and mix his game up. he's become easily predictable and players play him for the drive, and thus that forces him to be more reliant on his jumpshot, which is not a good thing. and you've seen commentators point this out during the national telecast. that's why it's so crucial that his knee doesn't flare up with soreness after this surgery. if it does, his career is most likely over. but people really overrate efficiency. let's look at mr. big shot chauncey billups. outside of his great playoffs this year, he's a CAREER 41% shooter in the playoffs AND career. that's WORSE than tracy mcgrady. paul pierce is a career 42% shooter in the playoffs, that's WORSE than tracy. ray allen shot 42% last year in the playoffs and 40% this year. hell, dwayne wade shot 43% this year. efficiency always helps. it can make the game easier. and we all would love for tracy to be more efficient with his scoring. but he brings other things to the game that do overcome that weakness of his. he rebounds, passes, creates, and do make the game easier for other people. since when you do see any other team being able to compete with a ryan bowen or david wesley or chuck hayes at a high level when those guys play around 35 minutes a night? i don't see that happening anywhere else in the NBA. the injury this year took those abilities away as he couldn't rebound, pass, and create (or even defend more consistently). and when tracy can't do that, it can't mask his inefficiency and thus he was a really poor one dimensional player. PS - lebron james, if you take away his historic playoff performance so far this year, is a 43% shooter in the playoffs. you're talking about THE best player in the NBA shooting 43% in the past 3 playoffs before taking off this year. i mean, you're basically really nitpick if you just pull up the fg% card on tracy. had ron just shoot bad, nobody cares, or at least i wouldn't. the thing is, he couldn't create to save his life also.
What game Plan? hand the ball to Tracy and wait?? Hell . . Rafer didn't seem to follow too much of a game plan some times When new folx show up . . new stuff does too Things were still in adjustment Rocket River
The first thing that immediatley jumps off the page when I read this. Of course Tracy was awful this year, he was out of shape and limping around the court.
In fact i dont like Tmac cuz he's always jumpshooter and ball stopper. If we have to add him into this team, i think, the only way to help rox is Tmac act as PG,premier at Assistance.
is there anyone against a mcgrady/artest/battier/scola/yao lineup? that is to say, is there something wrong with tmac playing the point? we know he is a great passer but maybe he would have trouble defeding the other team's 1's?
this is exactly what i've been trying to say, Mcgrady is never going to be the explosive player that he once was so everyone needs to stop dreaming for this outcome. he is to fragile (aka weak), which limits his desire to drive to the whole and attack. forcing him to become a jumpshooter which is not one of his better attributes.
