so how about mentioning what we need then? And make sure it's something that we cant get from Yao, or tmac or his contract. Or from Brooks, Landry and lowry being one year older. From Cook's or Barry's expiring contract. From ron's money. It seems to me ron is more expendable than Shane. ron's D is not as good as shane's. His offense is better, but it's not efficient and definitely replaceable, it's not like he was averaging 20 consistently. It would be nice not to have his turnovers, bad shots, risky passes and ball stoppage as well. come to think of it, if you ELIMINATE RON IT IMPROVES MOST OF THE OFFENSIVE TROUBLES YOU'RE TRYING TO CORRECT BY TRADING SHANE....
lmao at all these trade threads. first yao then AB and Artest and now Battier. no. we dont trade the one player we have to defend the other team's all star wing. and no we dont trade away our team leader. (yes, he is our leader) and no we dont trade away the heart and soul of this team.
and personally i wouldn't mind if ron did stay, but only if he's kept in check. He causes problems on offense that we dont need, either get rid of him to make the offense more efficient or sit his ass down and have a talk with him let him know he has to control himself, if not let him walk.
I gained a whole new appreciation for Shane Battier in these playoffs that I didn't have before. What he provided to this team was invaluable. At the same time, with the latest injury to Yao and Tracy's questionable status, Shane's fate is best examined at a greater macro level. Ideally, you would retain him, but I think there are some very big changes on the horizon, and Shane Battier's trade value has never been nor ever will be higher than it is at present moment. It will be interesting to see this offseason unfold, because, seemingly moreso than ever, the fate of each and every player on this roster is intertwined with that of the others.
Second that. Also, we played without any intimidating shot blocker in this series. The only interior defender we had was a 6'6'' center, who could not stay on the floor for a full 48 minutes. Why couldn't Kobe put up big (at least better than avg) scoring and assist numbers in this series?
Getting rid of Battier pretty much means you're giving up on being an elite defensive team. There is no one else in the league (except maybe Duncan or KG) that is a better defensive leader than Shane. Who's going to be this team's leader on defense? Ron? Yao? Also for your stats on Battier vs. Kobe, you're not going to be able to force Kobe to shoot much lower than 45% in a seven game series. If you're limiting Kobe to contested jumpers and he's hitting less than half of them, then you're doing a good job. If Ron had been guarding Kobe for the majority of this series, I guarantee that Kobe would've shot over 50% and he would've gotten into the paint at will (Artest probably would've gotten into foul trouble too). Does Battier give you everything you want? No. But unless there's a younger, more athletic player out there that is just as good defensively as Shane, I'd keep Battier.
totally agree, gained a new appreciation but we have to look at the bigger picture. it does depend on what happens with a number of players.
I love the Shaner, but he is what he is and that's just not great. It's all well and good to have that "glue" player, but it only works if you have the necessary talent on the floor around him.
I think Shane absolutely earned his money every time he stepped on the court. Without him, Roy and Kobe would have scored even more shooting a very high percentage and also created for their teammates. Having said that, we can not put on the court so many guys who rarely score, dribble or make something happen on the offensive end. With Shane and Chuck on the court together, if Scola, Landry get stuffed by taller defenders and Artest goes MIA, we can not generate enough offense to win games even if our defense is stellar. Trading Shane is just an option in a master plan, we can trade him or other player(s), just depend on whom we can get. Trouble is we still don't have a lot of tradeable commodity.
also a good point, shane did a veryg ood job of staying in front of kobe, not just containing but shutting down his penetration for most of some games, against another defender some of those missed jumpshots would have been drives to the rim that would get Kobe several fts, resulting in at least 6 or 7 more points. That puts Kobe closer to 35 per than his avg. He also only averaged 21 pts a game after Yao went down, with his high being 31 pts on 27 shots in a loss, so you could argue shane actually stepped up his d even more then...
Do you remember how our team defense looked like WITHOUT Battier for a first month or so of the season? GARBAGE Thread, seriously. Especially after that defensive spectacle he put on Kobe for the entire nation to see.
it's incredibly annoying how emotional some of you guys get in trying to stifle discussion. there's some great threads in the GARM right now, with some great discussion taking place, but all of them are saturated with comments as quoted above. stop - it makes threads even harder to navigate.
No. You don't watch what he is doing the whole game. Its not always about nailing down a three. Watch some tape then post.
I know one thing, and it's that Morey knows Shane's value better than anyone. So if Morey does decide to move Battier, I trust that we would get something pretty impressive in return.
that's right...his defense is still not appreciated as much as it should be, fans are looking for the block, the steal, the highlight defensive stop....the media has brought attention to shane's one on one d, so now some fans see that, but going unseen are the times he hustles back on a fast break to put a body on a pg going to the rim making him miss...or the times he rotates over to someone else's man when they go backdoor, some players would let it go, but he hustles there to at least put a body on them or stop in front of them. Seems like basic basketball, you rotate to help, but it's not uncommon for players not to be aware of it consistently or just leave it as one of those plays where you just let them get the easy layup instead of running to them.
Sometimes you don't get to trade the expendable players. Ron Artest had a terrible post season coming off one of his worst regular seasons in a while. His value is at an all time low. Shane had a good series and his value is likely at an all time high. People will look at Shane and Brooks as the main guys who pushed the Lakers series to 7 games. I could see them getting packaged up for a guy like Caron Butler or Steve Nash. Either player would really help us in terms of playmaking off the dribble. The wizards and suns look like they're heading in the wrong direction and would likely be looking to shed salary with an eye out for perimeter defense and a young prospect. Also, I think people are placing too much hope in Mcgrady's contract and Artest's value in a SnT situation. Most teams want to feel like they have upgraded somewhere in a trade. It's rare that a GM takes on a huge expiring contract, the way that Dumars did with AI, essentially throwing away the current season. How classy of you to imply that I don't think before I post...really. I'm just skeptical of our ability to stay healthy, consistently score, or get significant value out of Mcgrady's contract. With Artest's depreciated value i view him more as Battier insurance (if Battier is needed to bring in a good perimeter playmaker). I think people need to step outside of this 'I like this guy, let's keep him no matter what' mode and think in terms of assets. How can we use our assets to improve the team?
All of the people that want to keep battier because they like him more as person than as a player, go ahead. Keep working till you're 70 for a company that doesn't give a crap about you and get your $2000 watch. People laugh when have use this analogy of being a hunter vs a consumer. Millionaires and billionaires don't keep people cause they like them. Its about high end, talented producers. Basketball is no different. This is about the ring, not a popularity contest. I'd rather have a ring than 50 wins and 2nd rd flameouts. Dallas has won 50 games or more for 8 seasons or so, who cares? They have 0 rings to their credit. The astros have more wins and playoff appearences than the marlins, but how many rings do they have? Ibm thinks i'm a all or nothing, riverboat gambler type, but i'm not. I just think just as I thought last yr that this team needs to upgrade and shane has the least productive spot regardless of the intangibles. I like intangibles too, but players need to make plays. Like I said, rafer was a guy everyone thought we couldn't live without and we've seen that we can. They can upgrade Battier and either make him a 20min guy or trade him altogether. Its about titles folks, nothing else in this 3 yr window the rrockets have.
I think you need an intangibles guy who is efficient on the floor, if you upgrade Ron Artest with a creative wing, they win a championship with Battier. DD
