Would the Rockets already be in WC Finals if they had Gay instead of Battier?

Yes, I believe the Rockets goal heading into that season was to win a championship, and that they felt they had a 2-3 year window which represented their best chance of getting it done with the Yao-Tracy core. As best I can tell, that was the primary reason for the trade. If you have other thoughts on why they did it, let us know.

 

Who says he or anyone can? You apparently don't know how to watch team defense.

And Stromile Swift and Rudy Gay would?

Sure... if only a fraction of them really wanted to learn, they'd all be on the all defensive team...

Man, you are way way underestimating the skills of playing defense.

 

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I find it funny how you have to continually diss the team you're supposedly rooting for in order to defend your flawed point on Battier. First it was our 22 game winning streak and now this.

I hope you weren't lying when you were tired of debating this. Does it mean we no longer have to see your ridiculous Battier-hating posts in a Gay thread?

 

I'm surprised that people actually voted Yes. Rockets fans out of all people should understand the importance of defense. I understand defense is underrated everywhere but defense is what wins championships. The Spurs, Pistons, and the Celtics were great defensive teams that won last few years. Even Cavaliers stepped up defensively this year under Lebron's "leadership."

Battier isn't a Kobe-stopper. In fact Battier doesn't stop anybody but he makes the entire team play better defense.

 

They did it for that reason,but it was obvious to the naked eye that the addition of Shane Battier to Yao and McGrady was never going to be enough.
Morey has been creative, but very lucky.He admitted that he was looking at adding a Joe Smith type when SA inexplicably traded Luis Scola to us.Getting Ron was also a stroke of fortune since the Kings were high on Greene.
Without these additions,we wouldn't have gotten out of the 1st round let alone even coming close to winning a Championship by just the addition of Shane.
You can deny that if you like,but this is a fact.

 

He was not more of a scorer in 03/04 and 04/05. In 05/06, his scoring rate ballooned, and he averaged 33 ppg on 51% shooting and 7 apg in 3 games against us. In the two subsequent seasons with Battier, he continued to score at a high rate against us, but he had to take a lot more shots, he shot under 40% on average, and his assists went way down. This season, Kobe has been more consistent against us than in Battier's first two seasons. That's why, heading into this series, I figured Kobe would have his way. But Battier has done an admirable job in forcing him to take difficult shots, and taking away his preferred options. It's been a huge factor in us winning 3 of 6 games while being shorthanded.

 

I don't consider that a fact. If Tracy and Yao were as healthy in 06/07 as they were in 04/05, a reasonable hope at the time, then I think the Rockets would have won closer to 60 games than the 52 they did win . That means a higher seed, and a much greater chance of advancing to at least the second round.

 

Even if they made it to the 2nd round,they weren't good enough to go much beyond that.
We simply didn't have the depth even with Sura,Barry,Wesley or even Mike James in 04/05.We were drubbed by 40 points by the Mavs.
There is a reason why the Rockets have been more of a regular season team and lack of depth has been a big part of it.
Don't forget Utah beat us in 7 games even though we had a healthy Yao and T-Mac at home in the 1st round with Shane Battier being a member of the team.

 

Rudy gay is low iq basketball player. His shot selection is terrible. He doesn't know how to pass the ball. All he knows is to jack up a long jump shot with his foot on the 3p line when they need only 1point to win the game.

 

If you're good enough to get to the second round, I think you're good enough to have championship aspirations. Also remember that the Rockets got nothing from Bonzi Wells and Kirk Snyder in the 06/07 season. Also Luther Head was a complete dud in the playoffs, and he did not progress in the second year as the Rockets probably had hoped. To be a championship team, you need a little luck to go along with the talent on your roster. How many people, before this season, would have expected Cleveland to be a huge favorite to get into the Finals? You can't just say that the Rockets front office should have known that they wouldn't be a legit championship contender.

 

We'll never know but I still would still rather see Rudy Gay play for us than Battier. Shane is great but come on... Rudy Gay has the potential to be an elite player in the league. Can't say that with Shane. Plus him and Lowry are like best friends.

 

Exactly. Look at kevin Durant. I love the kid. He plays with so much heart and in about 2 years they will be in the playoffs. Brandon Roy never quits, even when the blazers sucked it up 3 years ago. Look at them now, the blazers are the future of the NBA, why?? because ROY is a hard worker. Also, D. Rose played his heart out. They stunk it up in the beginning and then with hard work he was able to help his team get to the play offs and nearly bump the C's.

This win22streak needs to be rookified for all his insulting comments directed towards other clutch fan members.

Tmac has more heart than Gay. With out heart, talent is useless. Just as the lion from oz =)

 

omg rudy gay? the guy who underachieved everybody's expectations this season? i wouldn't trade battier for anyone! intangibles, intangibles, intangibles ......

 

anyone who thinks Battier's primary contribution needs to be offensive production or sees any sort of causality between Battier's PPG and Houston wins is just

LOL

haha

lol

here's another one for you

OMG IT'S TRU. He scored TWO points Game 6... nearly TWICE his season average. Chuck Hayes' production = wins.

I CRACKED DA DAVINCI CODE YALL. I better watch my back for them Vatican assassins

 

for the 1,000,001 time....you can't directly compare scenarios that are YEARS APART. You're saying it's obvious a shane acquisition BACK THEN wasnt enough because they couldn't advance in the playoffs NOW that way? Doesn't make sense. At the time they did have enough to compete for a ring, if healthy. They just lacked experience. Now? Probably not because the depth in this league has ballooned thanks to FAs leaving, teams making one sided trades, and players coming out early in the draft. Now you need all that depth...actually you dont really NEED it, but it helps a lot now....look at Boston..they really werent that deep last year, they just had 3 really good players and the rest fit well, along with a great defensive plan.

Even if we use your scenario of no ron or scola, we still have

Brooks/Lowry
Shane/Wafer
Tmac/Barry
Landry/Hayes
Yao/Deke

That's still a a team that would have gone past the first round every year the last three years AT LEAST. And you can be sure we could have acquired a quality player if we traded Greene and Bjax, even if it wasnt for ron. And yes, Deke, tmac, and Yao are all injured and have been the last 3 years, but for this discussion its irrelevant since the team couldn't have predicted that years ago...you can't use unexpected injuries to back up your point here

 

All right,I see your point but no one can deny that Yao,Tracy,Shane were all healthy against Utah at home no less and were knocked out in the 1st round.

 

I think the last series is where we would have needed Gay the most.

Lets just think about a combo of Gay and Brooks..
Oh and some guy name Tracy McGrady and Yao..
Along with Ron Artest..

 

Battier is our Leader.

 

CAN SOME OF U STOP SAYING WE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD SCOLA OR LANDRY OR BROOKS OR THIS GUY THAT GUY COS WE WOULD STILL HAVE SWIFT???

Why are we even mentioning Stromile???

Look dude, lets take a look:

So is someone telling me that having Rudy + Swift meant we couldn't get Scola/Landry/Hayes/Brooks???

Freckin' hell does any of you not realise we signed Steve Francis to a multiyear deal that was something like 3.5 million per year when we had Brooks/James/Alston/Head/Lucas on the roster just at the PG postion????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please stop with the utter bull**** we can't get Scola or this guy or that guy cos we would have had Rudy Gay and Stromile Swift on the roster...I mean so you think a Rookie Scale Contract is infectious and could destroy the teams payroll situation??!!!!! I mean why did we even sign Steve Francis to a contract then??? Did we even need him that much when we had like 5 other PGs on the roster??? Man u need to check urself out when u say stuff like that.

Stromile would've have been an awesome expiring contract had we still been holding onto him right now.

So you'd rather have Brian Cookie Monster Cook playing rotation minutes huh????

So u'd give up Rudy Gay just to get rid of this MAMMOTH MASSIVE GIGANTIC mle contract huh?????????????

Okay. Stromile's contract expires this coming offseason. Do you know what we would have got for him if we still had him???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is one damn proven example:

Okay, Swift couldn't play. So he can't just warm the bench like 100 other NBA players each night???

We wouldn't have been able to absorb Rudy's Rookie Scale Contract??? (Swift and Battier gets pretty much the same pay)

and so u saying we would not be able to get Hayes because we have Swift?! uhhh.......

 

I didn't say that, though Swift's departure did make way for Hayes to have a bigger role on the team -- one of the side benefits I was happy about. This whole thread is hypothetical. If we never made that trade and we kept the 8th pick, there's no way to know would have happened in the past two seasons. Hell, maybe the Lakers end up trading for Battier instead. I'm not trying to forecast where we'd be as a team right now without making the trade; its impossible to do that with any sort of precision. I'm narrowing the focus to if we just exchange players at the start of this series, and keep everyone else the same.