Basically my reasons for leaving Russell off are in DC Kid's post... But, you're right, 11 rings don't lie and he did get like eight of them by neutralizing Chamberlain so he should be swapped for McHale and play power forward like you have him. As for Dominique, I took him mainly for his explosiveness. He could go off for 50 at any time and with Hakeem controlling the lane and with Mr. I Don't Have Fouls Called On Me(Jordan) and Isiah lurking on the perimeter, my squad could afford to be a little lax on defense at some positions... ... but to be perfectly honest, I haven't seen enough of Dr. J or Elgin Baylor in their primes and am biased against Pippen.
Woo hoo, I haven't participated in one of these in something like 2 days... . I'll try doing this without looking at anybody else's responses (well, except for Evol's) : C - Wilt Chamberlain, Hakeem Olajuwon PF - Karl Malone, Kevin McHale SF - Larry Bird, Julius Erving SG - Michael Jordan, Joe Dumars PG - Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson 5 Alternates : 1) Charles Barkley 2) John Stockton 3) Arvydas Sabonis 4) Bernard King 5) Scottie Pippen Coaches : Uh, as if it matters... When I picked these guys, I wanted guys that could pass the ball and wouldn't necessarily be ball hogs. I wanted guys who are interchangeable at positions. I wanted guys who could play defense (SF was tough... lol). I also ignored my hatred for some of these guys. I don't necessarily want "specialists" on my team, either. I think the only places I went astray from these requirements was when I picked Bernard King and Charles Barkley. I picked Bernard, because he was as unstoppable as Jordan on offense and he probably will be forgotten quicker than any great player by generations to come. I thought of putting Elgin Baylor in instead, but what the heck... this is my way of respecting King I guess. I picked Barkley even though his defense was suspect. The reasoning is that I saw him in his early years and there was no player short of Jordan that I ever watched who was sheer explosion in motion and just as tenacious. Watching him run a coast-to-coast break by himself and dunk the ball was excitement to me. He was a 6'6" tank that ran like an F1 race car. He also had his teammates' backs and didn't take trash from anybody. Sabonis is probably the other "strange" pick. I like the idea of a 7 footer that can pop 3's as well as be quite possibly the best passing big man to ever play. Being a fairly mobile 290 pounds also helps clog the middle. Had he stayed healthy and had he played in the NBA while he was young we'd be ranking him up there with the Shaq's and the Olajuwon's or possibly even higher. I was tempted to put Oscar Schmidt in there, but I held off...
Ok...Some of u are so stuck on all-time greats, that it is pathetic. dragp asked why I chose Stevie, T-Mac, and Pierce over "Some All Time Greats". I'll tell u why...THEY ARE #$%@ing better. Shaq would roll over Wilt and Russell. Olajuwon and Jordan have the best FOOTWORK of all time, those choices shouldnt even be questioned. Pierce is one of the most versatile players in the league today and of all time. I just think that the talent is too good nowadays. I just know that Kobe would "Do" Jerry West, I know Olajuwon would have Wilt ankles on ice...I don't even want to argue anymore...for those of U that used common sense instead of reading David Stern's mind, thank U!!!
So why did you pick Love as your nick? Russell McHale Bird Jordan Cousy Wilt Havlicek Oscar Magic Julius Erving I would put this team up against any other team in this thread. and then watch the championship rings multiply
Certainly, I think most of what you say is arguable. But I believe Chamberlain could kill just about anyone, Shaq and Hakeem included. Wilt was guy that was 7'1", could jump higher than Jordan, run faster than James Brown, was stronger and more athletic than Shaq, and had a fadeaway out to 15 feet. As I will say again, Earl Strom, the late great referee, has testified that Wilt was getting 8-10 blocks for most of his career, although the stat was not kept until 1973-74. His weight ranged from 275 (1960) to 350 (1973). He bench-pressed 450 WHEN HE WAS 45 YEARS OLD. I just don't see anyone doing much against him, at either end.
Good thing you have Russell and Wilt on that team... somebody's gotta rebound those bricks Cousy throws up.
Oh, Evol, one more thing... Olajuwon is certainly well-deserving of best footwork... but Jordan? I think he just traveled a lot. The refs never called it because Jordan was the 'best player ever.' I never saw it, but someone I know said he once saw Jordan take 5 steps with no call.
C - Olajuwon, Shaq Pf - Duncan, Wallace Sf - Pippen, McGrady Sg - Jordan, Bryant Pg - Johnson, Thomas Alternates 1. Francis 2. Pierce 3. Barkley 4. Garnett 5. Drexler I think it's pretty obvious that I don't think very highly of the past.
Wow, Wallace again... isn't that a bit premature? Forgive me if I find it slightly amusing that you take him over Bird, McHale, and Malone. You must have seen those guys if you put Magic and Isiah on there. You really think Wallace is better? Top 15, ever? I'm not seeing it.
I saw Tim Melton, a sportscaster on Channel 13 in Houston, do a slow mo of a Jordan fake. Jordan's in front of his defender with his tongue wagging, and he proceeds to dribble the ball in prepartion to make a move. He bounces the ball, and by the time the ball has bounced a 2nd time, Jordan had taken about 5 or 6 steps in place. So... it's true... it's damn true!
I'd put Malone but I hate him so, all the flopping and such. Stockton deserves to be on it but I also despise him. Wallace is still young, has plenty of time to play and showcase his talents. and hopefully when some championship rings. I put Johnson and Thomas because I could not really think of any point guards I like, if Kidd has a consistent shot, he'd be 1st on my list. Ander Miller could also go on that list but he's yet to prove himself and I have to see what Bibby does next year, although I'm pretty sure for the series Webber averaged more assists then him.
But again, what about McHale/Bird? I think there are very few teams that, given a choice, would take Wallace over either of those guys. I really like Wallace; I live in Sacramento, and early in the season I was so disgusted with Webber that I was thinking him for Wallace would be a really good idea. Webber showed some resolve, though I still don't love him. Anyway, it's hard not to appreciate a guy who leads the league in blocks and rebounding, but Russell averged 22.5 rebounds over his career and won 11 rings. Wallace COULD win a slew of championships, COULD become truly great... but he's not there yet. Bill Walton would be on many of these teams if he hadn't been chronically injured... but he was, so he's not deserving to be on any of our lists. I think you can see why I want to wait a little longer before declaring him one of the top 20 players ever... but to each his own.
Shaq, Dream Moses, Duncan Bird, Garnett MJ, Drexler Magic, Payton Stockton, Russell, Wilt, Dr. J,Barkley
My Dream Team This won't be the best team in the thread, but these are the 15 I would pick. C-Hakeem Olajuwon/Bill Russell PF-Tim Duncan/Charles Barkley SF-Julius Erving/Kevin Garnett SG-Michael Jordan/Penny Hardaway(Pre-injury preferrably) PG-Magic Johnson/Steve Francis Bottom five-Kevin McHale, Eddie Griffin, Grant Hill(Pre-injury prefferably), Gary Payton, Walt Frazier
Wilt Mo Malone (Can't type that other one) Bird Jordan Magic Y'all are forgetting Wilt. Look at his stats - they're grotesquely gigantic. I don't see any way any other center can do what Wilt could do. There's the 100 pt game, for example. The 20+ rebounds avg. The speed, the power. How can you not take that kind of athelete? I wonder how Olajuwon would do at the 3 v Bird? Bird was not particularly swift footed, and Hakeem could straight up d on anyone. If I could move players out of position, perhaps I'd line up Alcindor Chamberlain Olajuwon Jordan Magic Stop that freight train. Opponents score - 0. Wilt's score - 100. Dream "team" score - 167. Seriously, when your big men are mobile like that, why would you prefer Karl Malone or Larry Bird? Chamberlain could crush Karl Malone like a tiny insect. Flop on that. I don't see Bird slithering around the goalie, or hitting anyone for the open look. I see a Spalding sandwich. I should enjoy that very much.
G. O. A. T. team Last Friday this fool attempted to challenge my basketball IQ with a dream team of his own. So I casually blew him out of the water with a list off the top of my head. (Most of his players were 1980-2000, surprise, surprise) I thought about it carefully over the past few days and came up with this list. Point guard- Oscar Robertson (some say he was a shooting guard, since he dominated the ball so much) Whenever basketball discussions turn to naming the greatest player ever, Oscar Robertson's name is a consistent candidate. He was very likely the greatest all-around player ever to lace up. In fact, Red Auerbach, who coached several Hall of Famers with the Boston Celtics, rates Robertson as the best, most versatile player he has ever seen. Most other basketball experts fall in line: The Big O could do it all. He was an unstoppable offensive player, who could score from every spot on the court and in any manner he saw fit. Robertson's offensive prowess officially transformed the point guard stereotype from the generic passer and floor general to a scorer and offensive weapon. Shooting Guard: Jerry West in the history of the NBA the process of finding a better shooter amounts to hair-splitting. Whenever the game was on the line, West's teammates found a way to get Mr. Clutch the ball, and he'd drain the shot. His cool, calm, collected personality and leadership skills were a coach's dream. West was Mr. Outside to Baylor's Mr. Inside. Whenever the opposing guard was oversized or physical, I could always switch the six-two west over to the point guard and let his long arms harass the ball carrier. Small Forward: Elgin Baylor, 'the man with a thousand moves.' Purists of the game sum up Baylor's game with one word- 'unstoppable.' Baylor was the first creative force who utilized 'hang-time' that spawned a legacy (see Connie Hawkins, Doctor J, Michael, Vince, and Kobe). The 6-5 Baylor could suspend himself in the air and had tremendous body control. He could dominate opponents with piercing drives to the hoop or trampoline-like jump shots- his first step was deadly and what's worse, he had this facial tic that always had his defender on his heels or on the bench saddled with fouls. Baylor was a frequent visitor to the line a la Malone. Powerforward (most difficult selection) Hakeem Olajuwon. Although he is a mere shell of the great athlete who dominated the late 80's and 90's, yet at the top of his game, experts were feverishly mentioning his name in the same breath as other single name centers- Wilt, Russell, Kareem. Granted there are genuine powerforwards that are deserving of this spot, but Hakeem would be too much for any poor 4man to handle in the post: he'd shoot over them, or on the other end he'd swat their shots away. His offensive skills amounted to a seven-foot ballerina, with unparalleled footwork and unmatched athletic skills, Hakeem was the genuine 'dream.' It is possible that his defensive skills even exceeded his offensive game, for he was the multiple defensive player of the year and technically, holds the all-time shotblock records. Center: Wilt Chamberlain. No explanation necessary. (one stat- the top 160 high scoring games, Wilt holds approx. 100 of them, while the next nearest player, MJ, holds about 30) 6th Man- Michael Jordan- some bald guy from North Carolina. Bench: Point Guard- a genuine small man is needed, for Oscar was a oversized pointman who may not be able to defend the speedy scat backs. I could go with Bob Cousy, the Houdini of the hardwood, but got scared off by his low FG percentage. Next up was Isiah Thomas, but Stinky had him, so I wanted someone else. Neither Stockton nor Payton make the cut since they are not champions. So I settled for Walt 'Clyde' Frazier, who's the best elements of Gary Payton and Isiah Thomas. Shooting Guard- Clyde Drexler (he may be the 12th player since Jordan might get all the minutes) Small Forward- Larry Bird, who was Doctor J's nemesis. Once he taunted the doctor during a game '40 to six, doctor' over and over to the point the gentleman lost his cool and rabbit-punched him. Power Forward- Tim Duncan (a bigger, more fundamental Karl Malone) Center- Bill Russell- Imagine Dennis Rodman with David Robinson's physical tools, at 6'9" add a Basketball I.Q. of 200, and you have Bill Russell. Designated twelfth man- Maurice Stokes. Missing- Charles Barkley (lousy defender), Kareem Abdul Jabbar (lack of passion, check out rebounding numbers), Karl Malone (choke artist), Pete Maravich (not all-around enough to make the cut), Julius Erving (no range), Bill Walton (injury prone), Roger Brown (undersized), George Mcinnis, Artis Gilmore (stronger than shaquille, but not as agile), Bob Pettit (flat footed), John Havliceck (no weaknesses, but couldn't pick him over baylor or bird), Dave Cowens (undersized), Hal Greer, Sam Jones, K.C. Jones, George Gervin (lousy defender), Rick Barry (hard to pick between him and bird except that bird was taller and a better rebounder), Shaquille O'neal (no range), Jason Kidd (no jumpshot), and Dennis Rodman (lack of offense). NEXT!
Fichte, I like your post, but allow me to argue a few things... I sort of wonder about Stokes. Yes, he was really good for his 3 years, but he only shot 35%... not exactly worthy of an all-time team. May I recommend Cowens? If he's undersized, play him at PF... he was plenty fast... he actually outran Oscar in an All-star game once. He's also one of just two people (Pippen is the other) to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals in one season. He is one of just three people I ever saw block one of Kareem's sky-hooks (along with Hakeem and Wilt). He was the best defender of his time. About Jerry West... I started him as well, I'd just like to point out some things you didn't. One of the things I like most about West was that he adjusted his play... in his first 2 years, he averaged almost 8 rebounds. But as his hops decreased, he focused more on distributing, and his assists totals shot up. He had a very good FG% (47.4) for a guard that shot around the outside so much, unflinchingly launching 30-footers. One thing that many don't realize about Jerry was besides being one of the best in the league at stealing the ball, he also got many blocks for a 6'2" guard. Part of this can be explained by his long arms (Chamberlain once said he and West wore the same shirt-sleeve). Tough team leaving off Abdul-Jabbar and Julius Erving. And what about Magic? I don't see him in your list of the conspicuously missing. Don't get me wrong... I like your team. I just love to nitpick, I picked 7 of the same players and 3 of the same starters .
