You are being deliberately obtuse. It is approaching basso levels. Ok maybe not that far... I have said that the histories are different. Nobody is claiming there is 1:1 correlation in the experience and struggles. But to deny there are similarities isn't realistic. Gays are descriminated against based on who they are in the legal system. Gays have been beaten, and killed because of who they are. The prejudice against them has been rationalized because of religion, fear of setting an immoral example for children, leading to polygamy, bestiality etc. I don't think anyone would claim the struggles have been identical. It's just that when circumstance are unjust in one struggle, they are also unjust in another and the excuses in one that were bad then, are still bad now.
i know you intuitively understand this, but it's not a contest. suggesting that gays are being unfairly discriminated against, in no way minimizes the historical struggle of blacks in america. just as mention of the holocaust doesn't diminish palestinian grievance (although blowing **** up will tend to drown it out). there's room for justice for all.
Interesting... I guess this means that Christians should stop celebrating the sabbath on Sunday, drop that whole Old Testament thing, and find their own damn god to worship. TIA!
Correction: not yet repped. I just went around and gave out like 15 rep points but it still tells me I have to spread it around more before giving anymore rep points to finalsbound. Will rep when it lets me.
I don’t think the government should use the word marriage period, not just for gay unions. The reason is that the word is very important to the traditions of many people, including Jews, Christians, and Muslims, and the government should not be trying to take it over and redefine it. There are a lot of people, and a lot of prominent people including Obama and Rick Warren, for example, who favour, or at least do not oppose, same sex unions but who do oppose same sex marriage. Again, the reason is that using the word marriage in this way is an infringement on the very important, long standing, traditions of these faiths. They are fine with granting rights to same sex couples, but they are not fine with needlessly taking rights away from these other groups, namely the rights to their own traditions. This issue has brought this problem to a head, but to get to the root of the problem I think the government has to stop using the word marriage altogether, give it back to the traditions that it came from, and pick another term. The government is interested in legal rights and responsibilities it affords to couples entering into a certain kind of committed relationship. It’s not interested in the cultural and religious meanings that are tied to the concept of marriage; therefore it should not confuse the two by using the word marriage. Some people will certainly still have problems with it, but as I suggested above for a lot of people the issue is the redefinition of the world marriage and the infringement on their own traditions that that represents. Without the word marriage involved this in large part ceases to be a Christian issue. The government is merely giving some legal rights and responsibilities to same sex couples. It’s not about the traditions of marriage within the Judeo-Christian and Islamic faiths anymore. It’s something else entirely. (Unless a same sex couple wants to be married in a church, and in that case there are churches that will marry them, and then this becomes a dispute between the different denominations, but the government is out of the picture this way). There will still be complaints from the, “American was founded on Christian principles” people, but that’s a smaller group and a much weaker argument, and it’s countered by the principle of the separation of church and state as well.
Here’s some friendly advice. I think you would get more out of this board if you would take some time to learn more about the issues before you respond to them. Your comments in the evolution thread were nonsensical, and your post here suggests that you don’t understand that the Jewish and Christian Gods are the same God. If you don’t have at least a basic level of understanding then you’re not going to get much out of these discussions.
Tee hee.... So you get to whine about the government appropriating the term "marriage", but the same criticism can't be applied to Christians, who appopriated volumes of Jewish terms and concepts?
The repression of sexuality in Christianity, through Paul's writings, has brought upon untold amounts of misery to women and homosexuals. Not so say that Paul was bad or entirely wrong, but this is one part where he is. It's too convenient to target those writings to justify and moralize superiority upon the actions that aren't anyone else's business. And another thing that bothers me about the Religious Right is how they're unforgiving on "hot button" sins without acknowledging how steeped in sin they are themselves (minus the occasional scandal where they admit it after the fact). For people demanding high and priestly standards upon one specific group of people, maybe they should demand it upon themselves first.
Like I said, you don’t appear to have even a basic understanding of what you’re talking about, and as a result there’s nothing in your post worth responding to.
Which particular writings did you have in mind? Many of the ones that are often quoted are taken out of context. Romans 2 1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans 2;&version=31; Those people don't seem to be too familiar with the Bible. In all seriousness, they generally don't know the Bible very well at all. They've bought into the rhetoric of the leaders of their churches, and that's pretty much the extent of what they know.
Let me make this easier for you: Judaism--Sabbath on Saturday (also lunar calendar) Christianity--Sabbath on Sunday Why are Christians appropriating centuries-old Jewish terms and chaning their meanings?
so, by that logic, I guess my kids hate Muslims because we don't believe in Allah. Jews must hate Christians because they don't believe in Jesus. I wonder if my niece who is Hindu hates me because I eat meat? See, your post would be great if it were even half true. I'm sure that there are people out there that are teaching their kids "gays are gross". I do not. I teach my kids that homosexuality is wrong. Yet an even bigger part of our faith stresses the importance of loving our nieghbors. I would like to think that if an openly gay teen was being harrassed, my daughter would be one of the first kids to stick up for him/her. However, she would also tell the person the joyus wonders of Jesus Christ and tell them to repent.....that doesn't mean my daughter hates or is grossed out by the openly gay person. It's just a disagreement of lifestyle. I'm sorry you had to grow up in an environment like that, but I feel pretty confident that your situation was an aberration more than the norm.
that would be a fantastic statement, if that were the only scripture in the entire Bible. Unfourtunately, there are MANY MANY others.
Just to clarify how wrong you are......the article wasn't even written by a female. and the homosexual population is VERY unified in their purpose and quest on equal marriage rights. It couldn't be any simpler to figure out, they have an overwhelming desire to be recognized as normal human beings, just like heterosexuals.
Why would she tell the person to repent? Would she tell the harasser to repent? Does she go around telling everyone to repent (because everyone sins)? Is homosexuality a worse sin than your daughter's sins and everyone else's? The gay people I knew who grew up in the church would have given ANYTHING to be straight. It's not like these people are going to hear "repent!" and they'll be like "oh, sweet! Let me just easily turn straight so I don't incur God's wrath!" It DOESN'T happen like that. One of the guys tried to commit suicide twice, the others have abandoned the church and their faith because LOVING THE SINNER AND HATING THE SIN apparently most of the time includes berating and shaming. And who the hell wants to go through that? Do you want people coming up to you and shaming you because of one of the intrinsic elements of who you are? That gay kid is going to feel REALLY uncomfortable and unaccepted around your daughter because when she says "Repent!" what it really means is: "I don't accept you for the way you are."
If you're going back as far as the 19th century to draw your examples, then yeah, they probably have.
That comment wasn't necessarily directed at you, btw. I haven't been following your part of this thread so I'm not sure what you've said. But, on this passage, I think it does accurately represent what the Bible says on this issue. Judging others, and discerning what is right and wrong for one's own sake, are two different things, I should note, but if you think there are other passages in the Bible that say something significantly different than this one then please list any you can think of and we can have a close look at them.
I suggest that you find a site that gives you a brief history of the early Christian church, and then you will quickly find out why your question doesn't make sense.
