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If you want Wafer in down the stretch, who goes out?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by The Cat, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. The Cat

    The Cat Member

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    We've kind of touched on the fringes of this in a few other threads. One thing no one can deny about last night was that the Rockets' offense was stagnant when Yao was fronted/in foul trouble, Wafer wasn't in the game, and Artest wasn't making those ridiculous shots he threw up in the first quarter.

    imo, the biggest turning point came in the time between when Yao picked up his fourth foul at 6:50 in the third (63-58 lead) and when Wafer came in at 2:50 (69-65 deficit). The Rockets were on the verge of finally having some separation, but when Yao went to the bench, the offense completely bogged down until Wafer came in. That double-digit swing completely changed the complexion of the rest of the game.

    Of course, Wafer came in, attacked the basket with regularity, and gave the Rockets' offense a jolt... until he was taken out with about 5 minutes to go. Then, the struggles started again. I know Wafer's not going to play that well every game, and I know the rest of the offense isn't going to be as stagnant in every game. But my question, in a future game where Wafer has the hot hand and you decide he's too important offensively to take out, who do you keep on the bench -- Ron or Shane?

    Morey hinted last week that he'd like to see Wafer more down the stretch, but he'd need to prove himself more (re: defense) to RA for that to happen. It sounded like Morey thought it was right in certain situations, but obviously understood the concerns Rick would have given his inexperience and lack of defensive commitment. The other issue -- out of Ron and Shane, whose defense is more valuable and who plays better with Von? Personally, my gut tells me that Battier is the better fit... however, I worry about how Artest would react behind the scenes if he weren't in the game at the end... I have no such worries with Battier.

    Anyway, if Von plays down to the wire, who do you sit?
     
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  2. ibm

    ibm Member

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    depends. it goes from game to game. in last night's game, i would, maybe in a hindsight, put lowry to replace ab and wafer for ron.
     
  3. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    Depnds on who isn't playing the best. If Scola isn't hitting the 15ft jumper then it's him. If Artest is going crazy then it's him.

    I trust Artest holding Aldridge, plus creates a mismatch on the other end. Aldridge can't double Yao in the post because Artest is at the 3pt line.
     
  4. moestavern19

    moestavern19 Member

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    Its tough because they are really tall when they rotate Aldridge, Pryzbilla and Oden in. That severely limits us being able to play Ron at the 4 at any point. I think that was the smartest adjustment McMillan made, because Channing Frye is worthless out there. Then they bring in Outlaw, and he's too quick for Scola if he's playing the 4, so Landry almost has to be on him by default.

    As good as Von has been, his offense has to be almost perfect for him to stay on the floor that long because his defensive intensity is lacking at times, and he'll either get caught looking off his man or jumping at the first pump fake. If those things happen, the Blazers have too many shooters who can hit all day.

    That being said, I don't expect Roy and Aldridge to be THAT good again this whole series, and I certainly doubt that Yao will be limited to 6 shots again in the series either, especially with no Deke now. As much as Game 1 was a bit of an aberration, I think a lot of Game 2 was a fluke as well.

    I fully expect us to come out and take them out of their offense in Game 3. Nate made the correct adjustments in Game 2, and now Rick will counter with different looks in Game 3 and the chess match will continue. Overall, I think this young Portland team will have trouble on the road... especially in a playoff environment.

    The pressure was squarely on them to win game 2 and they performed like an elite team and we still could have won that game based on sheer determination of our guards to get to the rim. I take that as a small victory in a tough loss, and I know our guys will bounce back strong... look for Scola to be a lot more active Friday night.
     
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  5. Shaunjon

    Shaunjon Member

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  6. Tsquare

    Tsquare Member

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  7. The Cat

    The Cat Member

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    It's funny... everyone talks about Wafer being a liability on defense, and I'm not saying he's a good defender... but I'm not so sure I don't prefer a Travis Outlaw iso to the normal Roy/Aldridge calls. The Blazers actually looked a little out of sorts on offense and strayed from their gameplan to try and attack Wafer... and that's not necessarily a good thing (for them).
     
  8. HeyDude

    HeyDude Member

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    Depends on the score. If we're up or tied, I'm sure he'll go with Shane and Artest to guard Roy and Outlaw (kinda like last night) and take his chances (defense over offense). If we're down by 5 or more, and offense is struggling, I could see him puttin Vafer in for Shane. I doubt he ever takes Artest out, cause even though he's a chucker, obviously he still can be a big play kind of guy.
     
  9. Obito

    Obito Member

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    Artest.

    It's not a "depends" answer either.

    Anyone want to guess the amount of shots artest has made when we're down 5 or lower in the last 2:00 minutes.

    0
     
  10. PointForward

    PointForward Member

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    "down the stretch", I don't want to see Wafer or Aron any where close to the court.. they're finding new ways to define young and inexperienced with every game..

    Lowry should be in the entire fourth quarter, and Von Wafer should be chained to the bench after the first 3 turnovers/disgusting blocks he swallows..

    I have mad love for Von, but I've never seen a player being more overhyped than this guy.. Spanoulis? no, he had his doubters on this board, but people just think that Von Wafer is god's gift for us to replace that lazy bum who must not be named.. average role player, yes, savior? NO..not even close..
     
  11. respect_roc

    respect_roc Member

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    I think it really has to depend on the circumstances prevailing at the time.

    Still, in general, I think you remove Artest if only for the simple reason that Wafer's effectiveness will be muted if you've a senior by your side who's always demanding the ball and jacking up those jumpers.
     
  12. Bleeding Red

    Bleeding Red Member

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    Tough question because Shane play better D on Roy than Ron. But Ron contribute more on offensive end. Ron need to sit he hoist too many 3 at the end. Shane can do that better.
     
  13. kgoodman

    kgoodman Member

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    I totally agree. Wafer was ballin in the 4th last night. Making the defense pay for focusing on Yao. The one negative is he looked like he didn't know the plays at times (i.e. Scola flagging him to his spots at times). BUT even out of position Wafer made it tough on the Blazers.

    Ron came in for Wafer, and I was like why. Ron is a ball stopper, its just the truth. PLUS I think Shane did a better job on D than Ron did. Let Shane guard B. Roy. Puuulezzzz.
     
  14. IamKhan

    IamKhan Rookie

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    If it's a close game, I want this team:

    Lowry/Wafer/Battier/Landry/Yao

    Brooks/Artest/Scola, I love those guys, but they do not play very well under the pressure. Lowry/Wafer/Landry can all attack the rim if yao is fronted.
     
  15. The Cat

    The Cat Member

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    First of all, I agree that obviously you have to consider the individual circumstances of a game -- who's hot, who's not, etc. I'm more posing this question on the hypothetical that Artest and Battier are each playing "standard" games for them.

    This is closest to how I feel. If Wafer is in the game, it's to create off the dribble and generate offense. If Artest is in the game, you risk limiting Wafer's greatest strength because of how shot-happy Ron is in the final minutes of a close game. Couple that with how strong of an off-ball/spacing player Shane is, and that's why I would lean to sitting Ron. Not sure how Artest would react to that, though -- that's something that really scares me.
     
  16. Nolocke

    Nolocke Member

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    You gotta have Brooks/Yao/ScolaorLandry/Wafer/Battier in there down the stretch depending on who they have in there is also a factor though because its all about match ups. I love Artest to death but the man throws some crazy shots up at the end of games and we have to make a better decisions then that. I think if you take Artest out of the final 5-6 minutes of the game and replace him with Wafer things will improve. I also don't understand why Adelman doesn't draw up a few plays for Brent Barry. Barry is a veteran who can make shots in the clutch. But if you bring in Barry then Shane would have sit. We have to many catch and shoot players. I pray that in the offseason we can get a guy or two that can create their own shot.
     
  17. ClutchCityReturns

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    I post on a general NBA message board from time to time, and in the Blazers vs. Rockets game thread there were Blazers fans saying they won game 2 and didn't even play that great.

    :confused:

    Another Blazer's fan then said he was confident that they would now take both games in Houston.

    :confused: :eek:

    Granted these posters were probably 15 years old, but it's just amazing how they didn't realize how with a few calls or bounces our way, the Rockets would be up 2-0 right now...even with Yao neutralized, Dikembe injured, our free throws not falling, Roy going for 42 on 15/27, Aldridge going for 27 on 11-19 almost exclusively on jumpers, all at HOME....

    Hell, how many Rockets shots literally rattled around the rim before barely popping out (with or without the other team smacking the backboard). It had to be 4 or 5, and if even 1 or 2 of those goes down it's a different game.

    I was upset about losing the game (more so about Deke, I think), but I didn't feel bad at all about the message that last night's game sent. It told me we can pretty much take their best shot and still have a lead late in the 4th quarter on their court in a game that they had to win.

    I feel great about what we'll see here in Houston.
     
  18. Obito

    Obito Member

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    Totally agree. BRoy has the speed of a point gaurd, Artest can't keep up with him.
     
  19. respect_roc

    respect_roc Member

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    As fans, it's quite understandable if we're concerned about Artest's ego. But as a coach, I tend to believe that Adelman has to have the courage to make the correct adjustments and has to have the respect from his players to trust in what he's doing.

    And we all know that in order to have others believe in you, you have to believe in yourself first. Same with respect. Without this basic quality (I'm not saying that Adelman doesn't), the man has to go, unfortunately.
     
  20. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Member

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    He is a complete liability at the end of games when he heaves up garbage.

    Meanwhile, Wafer was a lot more efficient than Battier who basically gives us nothing on offense. But with Shane acting as the QB like last night, we probably want him out there. So Artest is the easy choice to bench late in games when he turns into a poor jump shooter.

    Also, depending on who has the hot hand, it wouldn't be a bad idea to play Lowry at the point, and move Brooks to SG. It looks like Portland went with Blake and Roy down the stretch so this move could work. Stick Lowry on Roy and Brooks on Blake on the defensive end to set up these matchups:

    Lowry - Roy
    Brooks/Wafer -Blake
    Battier - Outlaw
    Scola - Aldridge
    Yao - Pryzbilla
     

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