"When is is a threeway a throwaway" When it is not a threeway but a two way. What would be simplier than a three way but a two way trade. If you look at Pop's thread, he said we would trade our pick for odom plus other things. He is coming!! Odom, a guy we've been talking about on the board for months. Maybe Troy is correct about Steve but maybe he was off base on the three way. On the other hand, this could be a bluff to sucker Chicago into thinking that we would trade our pick and the clippers would pick JWill. That might be enough for Chicago to trade their pick with ours and give us something in return. Remember, this a team that took Bryce Drew off our hands. Either way we get who we want plus some other stuff.
To use an old phrase around here, "perhaps Doc Rocket just wants to save money..." Oh, yeah... Pssst. The crow flies at midnight. I am the walrus.
The thing with Troy's first post (and I think the event he based his post off was actually true) was there was some underlying issues there that made sense. I'm told matter of factly Francis would not mind playing the 2 (or maybe not lose the title of PG but run two playmaking guards, or have another position player take some of the playmaking duties) and if Mobley was traded, he'd probably be upset to lose a friend off the team, but probably not anywhere near the extreme we make it out to be. And he did say he did not object specifically to taking Jay Williams (I don't think Francis realized what he said on TV could be viewed as "Ming" only because the two players everyone thinks are top-pick worthy are a PG and a C, and he disqualified the PG). I agree it makes no sense for the Rockets to draft a franchise player at the very position they have one. So I don't think Francis said take Jay or else - I'm "told" he's excited about the exposure Ming will bring to the team, but speaking frankly, I don't know 100% what Francis is thinking right now, and that's what I'd like to find out. As for the post Troy made Saturday morning, well, Yao Ming's reps left very happy Friday (actually I think they left the Rockets offices Thursday but left for China Friday) and Erik Zhang especially is looking forward to Ming in Houston (thrilled, actually). That to me would make the idea that the Rockets <B>already</B> have a deal worked out with the Bulls and Clippers seem unlikely. As for a snag with China that will be announced very shortly... what's a "snag"? That's what I want to know. I mean Shangai Sharks saying no way? Ming saying he wants the Knicks? The government arresting Mayor Brown and saying they will cut his genitals off unless Jared Jeffries goes #1? I don't know. From what I understand, the Rockets are less concerned about these negotiations than we are. Garnett? I won't comment on that because I don't 100% know. I'm told it's laughable, but I don't want to come off as disrespectful again and see an "Auge Vater" account spring up. Who wouldn't want Garnett .... I just can't see it. I do think the Rockets are talking a lot though as I don't think this offseason will be just add #1 and #15 (and #37 is also viewed as important). But there really is no secret - I've posted the gist of it before. Maybe some details that can't be posted, but they're not important in the grand scheme of things and the point remains the same: Ming is going #1. The league wants him #1 (and they think Houston is a great fit). China wants him #1. Ming wants the Rockets. The Rockets want him #1. I've been told 100%. But lets be brutally honest: In a draft, is anything 100%? No way, and with as many variables as there are with Ming, the Rockets could discover something that blocks the process or someone could step in and make an unbelievable offer or all those on the inside could be being used as pawns of misinformation. All of that I admit openly is possible. But to me the writing on the wall is there: You have to think about the value a pick like this brings. From national TV telecasts to merchandise sales, this is really going to increase the Rockets' exposure and increase the value of the franchise. I think the top pick is pretty close to a lock, so the countdown to pick #15 (which would be at what, 14?) could probably begin.
Clutch, that was pretty good. The thread TB posted, I didn't want to blast the guy to much like some of the other people, but to me, I thought the Rockets were in the process of going through to much trouble not to draft the guy. Personally, if I knew down in my heart that I was and could make a trade with the Bulls, I would half ass do what they are doing. Why would I even go through the tape and showing his cousin the city for a bluff job? To me it justdidn't make any sense. On top of that, the teams that are involved can get really good players to help their team at their spot. The only spot the Bulls need to solidify is the pg spot. The Warriors need players everywhere except 2,3,and 4 so its a couple of ways they can go also. To me it just didn't add up.
Thanks Clutch for being so blunt! lol, 'Auge Vater'... I'd love to use that joke in my own postings but I fear you'd get the flack. Regardless, that entire post is illuminating.... Ming, KG lol, etc.
Now that's the kind of insider post that I love (and, frankly, yearn for). Just tell us in plain English what you can tell us without damaging your sources and leave anything out that needs to stay secret. We're all adults here -- no need to play games with childish riddles and watch us burn through 150 posts trying to figure them out. That all made a lot of sense -- especially the part about all of us overemphasizing the effect losing Cat would have on Franchise. I've always suspected he would be a bit more professional about that than advertised. Thanks, Clutch.
I guess there is nothing to do then but start rumors about the 15th pick. I heard Nachbar has short arms and cant play defense. Will Europe let him go?
I don't think so. From the Chronicle: For what it's worth, the NBA will call the first pick in the second round the No. 30 pick overall. It is not. It is the No. 29 pick. Because Minnesota was stripped of its first-round choice after of its secret Joe Smith deal, the draft will jump from pick No. 28 (Sacramento) to No. 30 (Chicago). The "bump up" of picks doesn't happen until that 30th(actually 29th) pick from my understanding. I think this quote from the Chronicle clears up the "countdown from 14" deal. The more tempting trade offers won't come in until after the Chicago predraft camp ends June 7. June 7th is 14 days from the date of Doc's post.
You misunderstood. I'm saying if the countdown to pick #15 is 15, and the first pick could be a given (meaning already made), then the countdown is 14 because #2 is on the clock. I'm not talking about Minnesota losing their pick or anything of that nature. Hmm, could be. In 14 days we may know for sure if the Rockets will pick Ming (or not). That's a possibility.
I have been thinking lately that Cat will be traded. Maybe, maybe not, but Steve is probably aware that he and Cat, while talented, play similar games. So, lately, I am less sold on Cat staying here. He could be our bait to get the small forward we want. Chicago wants to add some experience, the Clips want to unload players/picks. So maybe we draft and keep Ming and deal separately for our small forward...? Chicago gets Mobley, Eddie Griffin, and Moochie Norris, the Clippers get Jay Williams, #15, the Rockets get Lamar Odom, #8 (Butler?), #12 (Jiri Welsch). No one wants to give up on Griffin, I know, but we still have shot-blockers in Ming, Cato, and Odom, and we get better defensively in the backcourt. Butler and Odom could probably switch at the 2 and 3 spots, if necessary. Steve Francis, Jiri Welsch (combo guard), Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, T-Mo, Mo-T, KT, Ming, Cato, Collier. OK, maybe my trade is too complicated, but the idea stands: Mobley might just be gone.
Giving up Griffin in that deal is pure stupidity Roxtxia, Plus at this point Mobley is worth more than Odom I'd venture. This trade is not worth it with or without griffin.
Thank you, DVauthrin. My blood pressure shot up off the charts when I read the Griffin and Mobley for Odom proposal. Roxtxia generally makes sense, but, man, that trade would be off the wall. Griffin will easily be, if he isn't already, a much better player (and shot blocker) than Odom.
Lemme see if I got this. There is a 100% chance that Yao Ming will be taken at #1. He wont necessarily be taken by us, but there is no doubt he will go #1. We have two paths to choose at the draft (Occam's Razor). We can either take the easier way and take Ming. Or we can choose to really work our picks to our advantage and work out a couple of trades (maybe using a few of our players) to improve our team more. At lot of value comes with the #1 pick, so teams may be willing to give up a lot in order to get it. So in other words, we have the upperhand on whatever comes our way. Carroll and Rudy are probably salivating over the idea. I feel that the team is trying to convince Ming to come to Houston and it is most likely that he will come here, but is not 100% because if a better opportunity presents itself, we will go with that. Here's my wishful thinking: Many of us have complained how Francis is not much of a natural 1 guard, now if he was at the 2 spot, then he would be a lot more suited at that position. This would mean that we would probably trade down with Chicago in order to pick Jay Will at #2. Maybe Curry and #2 for #1? Jay is considered a Stephon Marbury sort of player. If this is true, he is already a better playmaker than Francis. This would mean that Mobley would either have to be moved to the bench or be traded. It would be in our best interest to trade him in that case. I love Mobley as a player, but Rudy will have to make some dramatic changes if he wants to be in charge next year. I would think this would include a trade with our #15 pick. Possibly Mobley, KT, #15 for Odom and their two picks (#8 & #12)? Rather than a 3 way trade, could they be two separate trades all together? Imagine this lineup next year... PG-Williams/Mooch SG-Francis/Butler SF- Odom/Rice/Torres PF-Taylor/Griffin C-Curry/Cato/Borchard Can you imagine this lineup next year? Damn, would we be good! Granted, our team would be young and we may have some problems with chemistry at first, but we would make the playoffs. I really dont think the Sonics could contend with this team. So tell me guys, how close am I really?
Not Even. First of all, the trade wouldny be accepted by the clips. There not going to trade there 2nd best player and 2 lotto picks for a good 2 guard, a backup 4 that will see 15 min. per on that team max., and the 15th pick thats lower than there original 2. Why would the clips want another 2 guard to go with Q. Richardson and Maggette. Your trade is to Rockets oriented a and you failed to take into account the other teams roster. Also, Butler is a good defensive 3 but not neccesarily a good defensive 2. I dont think he has the foot speed or the perfect fundamentals to play the 2 full time. And dont tell me defensive fundamentals can be taught easily because all you have to do is look at Cuttino and Steve. Caron would get blown past off the dribble. Next, Steve has made it clear that he doesnt want to to play the two. VERY CLEAR! Why dont you guys understand that he is agreat 1? He is better than Andre Miller, Baron Davis, and Steve Nash. He is the best PG in the West. HE STARTED THE FRIGGEN ALL-STAR GAME! WHY WOULD TRY AND FIX WHATS NOT BROKE. And Lastly, NO WAY IN HELL ARE THE BULLS GOING TO TRADE EDDY CURRY JUST TO MVE UP 1 SPOT IN THE DRAFT!!! God this kind of post makes my blood boil.
Hmmmm...just a thought? By the way, Clutch the creator of this entire site, called Clutch City said this..."I'm told matter of factly Francis would not mind playing the 2." This is just a guess, so maybe you are wrong when you said "Next, Steve has made it clear that he doesnt want to to play the two. VERY CLEAR!" As far as playing better than Miller, Davis, and Nash at the 1 that is very questionable. When one thinks of a great point, they consider the number of assists per game. In order to run a really good offense, it takes a good playmaker to run it. Consider these stats... Nash averaged 7.7 assists per game, Davis with 8.5, Miller with 10.9. While Francis averaged only 6.4. In my opinion, this shows that Francis is much more of a shooting (score first mentality) than a point (distributor) guard. Maybe the Bulls would be willing to do it, maybe not, but if we got the chance I would more than welcome it.
Good find. I think your onto something. Nice travel back In time too, read doc post and realized how bad I need coffee.
Dude whatever, OP mentions Occam's Razor, anyone know the last time it was mentioned and what came about?
