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Web Programming Question

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by jamma34, May 22, 2002.

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  1. jamma34

    jamma34 Member

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    As a soon to graduate computer science major, i thought i should take the time out to learn a web programming language this summer.

    anyway, so what do you guys recommend? all i really know as far as programming is c++ and some basic html (i can get around in frontpage, etc)

    so should i learn:

    php (i dont know sql but is that necessary?)
    cold fusion
    flash
    other?
    adobe go live? (havent really heard much about this)

    and any recommendations of books or websites i should study from while doing this would be greatly appreciated as well
     
  2. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    C++ will help you quite a bit in programming for SQL and things like Cold Fusion, PHP and ASP.

    For graphics, you should really get a decent handle on Photoshop and Illustrator, but primarily Photoshop. Sites are usually rendered as graphics prior to being cut up and plugged into tables for HTML. Another option here is Macromedia Fireworks and Freehand. Both are good but not as good as Photoshop.

    For a programming helper/HTML editor, go with Dreamweaver. If you want database stuff, go with Dreamwever UltraDev. It does alot of the stuff you would have to do by hand for you and makes your job much easier. Adobe GoLive is a decent piece of software but Dreamweaver is the industry standard.

    Beyond that, Flash is king. The new Flash MX looks ultra cool and so much can be done with Flash now beyond animation.

    You should get the basic tags and attributes down in HTML before venturing forth with an editor but I'm not a programmer and found HTML to be pretty easy. You can also look into SHTML, DHTML and XML as well as JavaScript to extend the basic capabilities of HTML. Plus, as a programmer, you have a good head start on CGI which is still used quite a bit.

    Personally, I think the Macromedia products are the best out there. Their development tools, Cold Fusion, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Flash, Freehand, etc are terrific. They are to the web what Adobe is to the print world.

    Also, Macromedia has an online study program called Macromedia University that is really pretty cool and worth the couple hundred bucks for a year worth of study. Good luck! :)
     
  3. DrLudicrous

    DrLudicrous Member

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    Coming from a C++ background PHP would be the easiest to pick up as it has a similar syntax to C. The other great thing is it is free, as is MySQL. With that solution you can set up an environment to test in fairly simply with no cost. Coldfusion, in my opinion, is the easiest to learn and use. It uses a tag syntax like HTML, and the tag names are pretty intuative. ASP is ok. All of them can accomplish the same things, so it's just a matter of preference. I don't have any experience with Perl so I can't really comment on it. To do anything that lays out well you will have to learn HTML, the best way to learn it is to stay away from graphic programs until you learn it. A great HTML editor is HomeSite or ColdFusion Studio from MacroMedia. And Dreamweaver is the the best graphic HTML editor. Jeff is right about the MacroMedia products, I've been impressed with everything they've released so far.

    SQL is very easy, it has a simple syntax that makes a lot of sense.
    Select Field From Table Where ID = x;
    It will only get complicated if you start joining a lot of tables together, but even then it is still fairly simple.

    Flash MX is absolutely amazing. MacroMedia has made it very powerful, you have full control over just about everything. ActionScript (the language Flash uses) is based on JavaScript, so again being familiar with C would help some. If you wanted to have Flash interact with a database you will still have to learn a server side language as a go between.

    Here are some websites I use for help. I haven't used too many though.
    PHP - http://www.php.net/

    ColdFusion - http://www.macromedia.com - the support center is pretty good and they have a forum also

    ASP
    http://www.asp101.com
    http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/

    Flash
    http://www.were-here.com - they have a very good forum with a helpful user base, also a good place to see what can be done with flash
    http://flashkit.com - tutorials and examples
     
  4. jamma34

    jamma34 Member

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    ok that sounds good, thanks for the help. i might pick up a copy of flash then (at my nice extra discounted academic price from the school bookstore hehe) and see what i can get down.

    thanks a lot for the help
     
  5. RocketsPimp

    RocketsPimp Member

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    Jeff, do you know C++? I just finished up an intro to programming class where we "learned" Visual C++. If that is what programming is all about, I'm not interested. I can't think of another time in my life when I was so frustrated!!
     
  6. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    I would recommend you learn ASP and maybe some ASP.NET. Also, build on your C++ skills by graduating to C++.NET. Since MS NT and Windows 2000 servers are in use alot throughout the Corporate world, I think that would be a good foundation to start from. Plus, like was mentioned, you can use C++.NET in your ASP.NET webpages so that will be some sweet knowledge to have...especially when looking for a job.

    As far as how much Flash is used in Corporate intranet or internet sites, I don't see it to be as common out there. It's good knowledge to have but I don't think you should start there unless you want to be doing really cool stuff like animations, transitions, and the like(who wouldn't?). Hey, it would be great to work for a shop that uses Flash as it's primary solution. Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to be the solution in many cases.

    It all depends on what type of web development your going to be doing. A lot of companies have some huge databases(DB2, SQL Server, Oracle, etc.) that they want web apps hitting or using, such as retail-based systems with apps like inquiry, ordering, tracking, scheduling, etc. . That is all I do. I learned Cold Fusion as my first language and went to ASP from there. But, Cold Fusion costs money and ASP comes with IIS so....from a money standpoint, companies tend to like going with what's free. There is always a requirement for some web app somewhere in some company...unless they are still in the dark ages.

    Those are my thoughts and I'm a seasoned web developer but, ultimately, the decision of what to learn should be more in line with what you expect or want to be doing out in the real world. If you want to use Flash, then learn Flash and find a job using Flash. Someone with your skills(C++)...I'm not sure I would want to go web with those skills but that is your choice. Seems like games programming or something more technical(and higher paying) than anything you could do on the web would be left for you. Any web development areas learned will look good on the resume regardless.

    Surf
     
  7. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Nah, I tried it but it is a MUTHA! Oh, my head! It was really a beast for me. I'm better with visual representations anyway, which reminds me...

    One of the things not discussed really is the fact that the vast majority of quality sites are designed in graphic applications FIRST. While programming is certainly a HUGE component, if you don't have the graphical representation to support the underlying code, your site will work great but look like crap.

    I found the most valuable knowledge I've gained has come in the form of studying graphic design and page layout. Creating the code for a complex layout isn't nearly as tough as coming up with a cool design in the first place. There are plenty of software app's that help get you through the code but no software can make you creative.

    Once the creative part is done, the code's the thing, but you have to get their first. I've found that good developers are one part graphic designer, one part programmer. Clutch is a great example of that.

    On Flash, I wouldn't hit that hard until you have a pretty good grasp of basic graphic design - nothing fancy, just the basics. Flash is killer and it looks real purty but, as Surfguy said, it is still used in a rather limited way across the net. High-end Flash sites are NOT the norm yet when it comes to commercial development, although there are some AMAZING sites done with it. We'll see if MX changes any of that.
     
  8. jamma34

    jamma34 Member

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    well i am taking a graphics course this summer, and a databasing/sql class in the fall, so i think ill end up looking at c++.net and php.

    thanks a lot for your input, i really appreciate it.
     

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