Post here if you've SEEN Yao play We seem to have a thousand opinions about this guy but not much evidence for them. What we need is descriptions from people, Chinese or American or whatever, who have actually seen Yao Ming play in basketball games. Here's the kind of information we need more of. It was posted by Fuzzybear in another thread: I have seen a couple of Ming's games in the CBA online and to be particularly honest, most teams in the NCAA didn't match up to Yao Ming's team, which is not "solid" evidence because its based on my opinion. From what I've seen of Yao's play, Yao is an incredible player who can definitely shoot (I saw a variety of post, outside, and fadeaways connected at approximately 80%(obviously being the CBA it probably won't be so high in the NBA but regardless an impressive shooting performance), no one dared to take the ball and shoot within 3 yards of Yao unless his back was turned to the player (happened only once) most times forcing the offense to drive kick out and settle for some bad threes, he grabbed rebounds everywhere and would sometimes hustle to grab rebounds anyone else probably couldn't get (once jumped and grabbed a board horizontally over defender's heads), and run up and down the floor relatively smoothly. The distinctive flaw I saw in his game was his upper body strength, but he overcame this quite well (though it looked ugly at times) and would drain shots regardless of physical play. He played quite intelligently and didn't jump for fakes, but would wait for the ball to leave the shooter's hands to block it. Let's fill this thread with direct observations like this one. Please don't clutter the thread with secondhand commentary. There are plenty of other threads for that.
2 second halfs of two CBA Finals games. There were what? two or three American players in these games. This looks like better talent than Marist (Smits) and BYU (Bradley) and Navy (Robinson). Professionals who could all shoot. Yao shot at will out to 18' regulary. He'd take an entry pass out to there, not face up like Mo. He seemed to have to come out to get the ball. Unimaginative offense, and double teams kept him off the low block...like he really cared...lol. Very smooth stroke. Granted, I saw the 21 for 21 game. crazy. Basically, everything you read is correct about his shot, with particular reminder that he passes instinctively. I never really saw him go against a double team that much, to know if he has a move against it other than his step back J. He likes to just turn and fire, and he's good at it. I think he can shoot from any spot around the horn. He impressed me with his ability to do a drop step, turn (either way) and hit Duncan's little 8' bank shot. I'll withhold judgement on the defense aspect of his game. Was not impressed with the offense the Sharks ran. They basically treated Yao like David Robinson at Navy. As a matter of opinion, I compare his offensive repetoire to David Robinson at Navy (age 21). Don't laugh. If you remember, Robinson never really got all that physical there. Robinson was not all that cat quick either. Yao, won't play like Robinson in the NBA, but that's my 21 yr old comparison. Smits and Bradley at 21 are not fair comparisons at all. They just couldn't score like this. Yao moves with grace. Can he move fast enough to make that move against double teams? Can't say, but he might not have to with that passing and that point guard he'll have. I expect he'll separate himself from Smits rather quickly with his passing, not to say he'll be Sabonis/Walton, but at least as wise as Jabbar at passing....rather than shooters like Smits and Laimbeer.
Regretably, I saw just 5-10 minutes of his play but I wish I had seen more since those games no longer appear to be viewable online. What I remember jumping out at me was Ming's better-than-I-imagined ability to hold his ground in the post even when being pushed on. He was aggressive on the boards from what I saw, but unfortunately I don't remember much else (or not much else jumped out at me from the little I saw). Note on the Chinese competition: While Ming's numbers are insane, just remember that so too was Wang Zhi Zhi's. What I would find interesting is how someone who followed the CBA would compare Zhi Zhi and Ming in their leagues only. Would they consider Ming the much better post player in their league? I did read one note that said while Zhi Zhi was still putting up big numbers, many questions his ability to play in the paint and felt he played "too far from the basket". Would they say the same of Ming? Also, it must be interesting for the Chinese to think Yao is going to the "Rockets" since the Bayi Rockets (Zhi Zhi's former team and 5-time champion of the league) are one of the Shangai Sharks' rivals in the CBA. PS. Nice post heypartner.
I saw that webcast of the game with the Sharks vs. Rockets in the CBA....that was a thread a while back. He didn't really seem to be a go-to guy...just kinda ran up and down the floor. He doesn't seem to establish his position in the post that well. Some pros are that he's an excellent free throw shooter, and a good shooter from everywhere else as well. But the competition there is probably even worse than people say it is. I mean David Benoit was having a better game than Yeow! and was dominating the game.
saw part of the USA v China World University Games last year....we lost by 1. the US team had dixon, ely, baxter, owens, dickau, and mason to give you an idea of the competition observations: I think he was 12 pts (5 for 7)/9rebs/5 blocks in 25 minutes...the thing that stood out about him was his athleticism and he really knows the game. he can get up and down and can shoot the rock! I would say he was one of the top players on the court...he competed very well against our big men. Baxter and Ely are, of course, the most physical of the players out there and he battled with them for rebounds.... So against our top talent he did very well. Ranking him against college players, I would say he is more potent on Defense than any player in the draft, because he can just dominate to the ceiling by being a menace blocker...offense wise and rebounding, I would say he is equal to our top players in the US.....
I've seen Ming play online and during the olympics and he has a sweet shot. He has a great mid range jumper, straight up and a turn around. He also has handles, comparable to Robert Horry which is pretty good considering he 7'5" tall. The thing about Ming is that has so much offensive talent that he doesn't have a go to move. If he developed his turnaround like Dream did then he would pretty much be unstoppable. He can not cover Shaq but Shaq can't cover him either. My only problem that I see whith his game is he is rather passive and not selfish enough. He doesn't demand the ball or try to dunk enough ( not the chinese way). Chinese players don't try to show opponents up like American players do. If he took all the shots Dream or Shaq takes or took, he would be average 50 a game in the CBA which I think would translate to 25pts/game here.
This has been posted before but if you want to see Ming play for 50 minutes then go the following page and click the link with CBA in it. http://www5.cnool.net/sport/record.asp
I saw the China v/s USA at the Olympics in Sydney. I saw the whole game - these are my opinions: 1. Chinese guards had trouble getting the ball in the post. The US defense was tough and physical (payton). 2. By the second quarter, the Chinese guards understood that they cannot dribble their way into the paint, so they switched to playing the pick and roll - several variations of that. 3. Yao Ming did not or was not able to plant himself down low. Attribute that to the US defense from Zo and the others that kept pushing him out and the haphazard handling of the ball by the Chinese guards who for a good moment, did not know what offense they should run. 4. Once the Chinese started playing the P&R, Yao and the other Chinese big men seemed comfortable. They were able to get open shots. 5. Ming's Offense - Against a tough US defense, he tried some low post moves with little success. Was called for a few offensive fouls. You can excuse that as bad positioning or bad inbounds pass and poor spacing. He was absolutely beautiful with his running and footwork. I haven't seen a big man run the floor with such fluidness. He has a sweet jumper and outside shot that I think rivals Chris Mullin. 5. Ming's Defense - Being in foul trouble, he was not able to be much of a factor. However, the US guards were hesitant to take the ball to the hole for the time when Ming, Bateer and Zhi-Zhi were there. He seems to be a better off the ball defender than one-on-one. The reason I am saying this is purely based on the fact that he can block shots better when off the ball. On playing defense straight up, it was hard to tell because either the US centers got off great shots, or they passed the ball out. There are also a few points to consider. The realization of Ming as a complete and great basketball player can only be reached when these factors are also combined 1. Weight Training 2. Coaching 3. Offense plays run 4. Level of opposition. It is hard to judge Ming v/s the US when the US players have had the requisite four points mentioned above, while Ming has not had the benefit of the above four. Also remember, the Chinese guards were also not the calibre of the Paytons and the Kidds and the Bryants of the US, and neither were their forwards the calibre of the Wallaces and the Duncans. -Tariq
I was at the workout in Loyola, watched that whole ordeal, and the Rockets would be silly to pass on him. He'll take a while to round into shape, and he may never be a Hall of Famer, but he's 7-5 with skills, dammit.
I've heard so much about his wingspan. Does anyone know what it is? I'd imagine that it's still bigger than most players.
I have actually seen him play in quite a few games in China. I was a visiting professor in Shanghai for about two years, and over that time period, I got to see a lot of Chinese basketball.
In summary so far here are his attributes as told by our oficianados: -tremendous shooter - from everywhere comparable to Sabonis quick release on shots -tremendous athleticism - not for a big man, but more as just a player...very fluid and good footwork -seems to have good court feel -seems to play better off the ball for blocking opps -great wingspan -can pass the ball very well -great hands so far, this is 100X better than our current center.......
Seen him play in person in Shanghai and several times on Chinese TV while living in China. Okay, here are some observations... All of the observations and reports that we have read about Yao Ming's shooting touch are accurate according to what I've seen from him. I wouldn't consider him a 3pt threat, although I'm sure he could hit a couple during a game. I'd say his range is more like 18-20 ft, which he can hit consistently and without hesitation. Another thought concerning his shot is that he can get the shot off quickly and, regardless of wingspan, can get it off against anyone. I sincerely question any comarisons to Shawn Bradley. Yao is flat out a better athlete than Bradley. Post moves need to be developed further. Decent turnaround, could really benefit from using a jump hook more often. Likes the drop-step and used it very effectively when I watched him, but it's hard to assess how effective that will be in the NBA when the players guarding him were mostly around 6'8"-6'9". Has a good touch from down low, too. Doesn't brick them off the glass like, say, Cato (who has no touch). Slow to get into his post moves, which may not translate well if not improved on. Can see him being neutralized by a decent double team. Needs to make a move more quickly...not sure if it's a decision-making issue or not. I won't beat the wingspan issue to death, but no, his wingspan is not really proportional to his height. Then again, he is 7'5"...so what if he's only got the wingspan of a guy who's 6'10 or whatever (by the way, I don't actually know what his wingspan is). I also watched the US-China matchup at the Olympics. My suggestion is to not go on what you saw there. If you saw some positives, then fine. But I like to keep in mind that he was going up against the best players in the world, collected together on one team. Plus, Yao was 20 years old. Overall, the area that I think he needs to improve on the most is in his aggressiveness, not skills. I think we are tempted to expect anyone who maintains a size advantage to the degree that Yao does, to dominate in the way that Shaq dominates. Not going to happen. You're not going to see Yao back a guy in and throw one down over him...not very often, at least. Likewise, we probably won't see him grab an offensive rebound, knock a couple of guys over on his way to dunking it on the follow-up. Then again, I think there are different ways to dominate than simply the way Shaq does. Olajuwon, especially after the early years, dominated with finesse and skill. Dream wasn't out-muscling people or dunking over them. I can see Yao dominating because of skill and his size, but not with power. Nevertheless, if he's going to do that, he'll need to take his aggressiveness up a notch or two. If I were the Rockets, the only reason I wouldn't take him (and it's a HUGE reason) is the Chinese government. The government has a lot riding on Yao's success. They want to see him do well because, then, China does well. But beyond Yao's personal success is the "honor" of China. If he were to somehow develop more slowly than anticipated and perhaps sit on the bench or do poorly his rookie year, it would be a huge loss of "face" for them. I can just imagine then hearing reports that the government is not satisfied with how the Rockets have been developing him and threaten to withhold him until he's traded...or something like that. I have not idea what sort of arrangement will eventually be worked out with the Chinese governement, but that type of response is very typical of China. In conclusion, it is exciting to consider the possibilities if the Rockets were to draft Yao. Until you go to China and actually see, it's hard to understand how huge the NBA is over there. I agree completely with Jeff's article on this website. He articulately summarized my opinion on this. The potential is there for something way, way bigger than just what happens on the basketball court. But it'll all start (and only start) if Yao produces on the court.
No problem (if you were actually referring to my post)...I'll be glad to offer any other thoughts if anyone cares to read them. It'll be worth the price you pay for it. One other thought is that, given 30+ minutes a night, Yao will easily average 10+ rebounds/game. Until he gets stronger, learns HOW to bang (it's not all about strength, but also when to use it, how to make contact, refs giving you some slack, etc.), and can stay out of foul trouble, he'll probably get those mainly on the defensive end. As for his defense, he may struggle with picking up silly fouls, like most big men when entering the league. Officiating is just different between the NBA and the NCAA or (in Yao's case) the CBA. But if you can block a Vince Carter dunk attempt (which Yao did at the Olympics...one of the few highlights for China), you can definitely be a shot-blocking, shot-altering force in the NBA. Let me also draw a distinction between the type of shot-blocking that Cato offers (based mainly on jumping and going for everything, including every eye-brow fake given by every player) and the type that I think Yao can offer. Yao is a defensive presence, not just a guy that can block a couple of shots. In my opinion, although Kelvin can block some shots, he does not change nearly as many shots as he gives up by being out of position due to eagerness. I think this is the area that Yao will have the biggest initial impact. Another thought on the Chinese government and their expectation that Yao play in the Asia Games, World Championships, etc. is that, although it has already been stated by them as an expectation, I can see possible adjustments to that in the future. For example, if that type of international committment really winds up hampering his overall development, I can see them backing off on some of those demands. Again, the pride of the nation is more tied into how Yao does on the NBA stage than how their national team does in, say, the Asia Games. That is strictly my opinion, though.
Ming has a really good game, and his shooting skills are phenomenal. He hits shots from three point range like a guard!! In terms of talent and fundamental skill, Ming is definitely worth the first pick. However, we must also take into account the fact that he really played against diminished talent. Those Chinese basketball players that he played against are not even CBA level in my opinion. Additionally, besides him, the vast majority of their players are below 6'7. That's at the very least a one foot advantage that Ming had over his competition. Anyone can look phenomenal in that circumstance. If I got to play basketball against someone that is 5 feet even, I could look pretty good too One final point is that Ming literally looked like a toothpick when I saw him play. The guy is not built AT ALL!!! From the looks of it, an elbow from Shaq in the paint could send him to Mezzanine! He definitely needs to bulk up significantly if he wants to an NBA center. If he wants to be a 7'5 small forward, which in my opinion he has the skills to be, then that's fine. But those fundamental skills that I mentioned earlier are definitely there. If Ming puts the effort in to train properly and bulk up, he'll make us forget that other center that we had for the last 17 years
Yes, Yao needs to bulk up, no secret there. No, Yao will not be a small forward (I realize that you are likely being facetious), so we can dispense with such talk. He'll have to develop a low-post emphasis. In my opinion, we all should really stop using Shaq as the standard to measure Yao. I can't even recall how many times I've seen Shaq lean into David Robinson or Hakeem or Ewing or anyone else for that matter and send them backwards. Nobody can match up with O'Neal in that way, so we don't need to use that as a barometer to talk about Yao. More helpful (again, imo) is how he matches up with every other center in the NBA. For example, can I imagine Vlade backing him down or sending him to the mezzanine? Not really. Dale Davis? Jermaine O'Neal? Brad Miller? Mutombo? McCulloch? LaFrentz? Mourning? No to all of those. I'm not saying that Yao would win all of those matchups, but he's not going to be physically dominated by any of those guys. Against Shaq, yeah, but I'd say the same thing for every guy in the league.
I don't doubt his ability. But I have a few questions. 1) How many people are okay with not having him for training camp and possibly post season? Even when he's here, he'll have been playing competitively, so he'd be a bit tired towards the end of the season. 2) Will the Shanghai Sharks be okay with him NOT starting? I don't think he should start. He'll be tired, he won't have preseason. He won't know the guy, he will hurt our team. As much as you may not like Cato, he's the better option at C AT LEAST until Ming has played half a season. Plus, Cato worked very hard. If he comes into camp in shape, we'll have to give him some SERIOUS consideration. What if he improves on last season? 10/10/2 with his body, his effort, and his experience? That could be our starter all season. So what do you guys think on the starting issue?
The post earlier had something real interesting. Teams that double team him. Can you imagine a team having to double team the post and leaving Cat and Francis open for penetration? Thats exactly what we need. If teams are so worried about whats going on down low, it would greatly benefit our guards, ask Kobe and the rest of the lakers. From what I've seen of him and I've stated this earlier, he reminds me of Brad Daughtery. Some people that are too young to remember him, he was a very good center until the back problems. He was a 20/10/4 asst center and a 5 time all star in 8 yrs. Was he as good as Hakeem or Ewing back then? No, but he was the 3rd best center in the league. He wasn't the fastest but gave good effort and was a good passer. If Ming is that equal, then the Rockets can become a championship quality team real soon.
