As pointed out above, if you look at the discussion starting on p27 this directly contradicts the main tie-break rules. It seems that there are different rules for during the season vs deciding playoff seeding once all the games have been played (which makes no sense at all...).
it sounds to me like those are the rules for deciding who makes the playoffs. (i.e. if the rockets and denver were tied for 8th and denver led their division, they go to the playoffs and the rockets go home). because right under that section, on the same page, it clearly states:
Below is my updated forecast. As mentioned by Scribo, it will be tough to take the division from SA, so it looks like it will be a tight race with Denver and Portland for 3-5 seeds. 6-8 is also looking like a toss up between Dallas, New Orleans & Utah. <table> <tr><td><b>Houston</b></td><td><b></b></td><td><b>Utah</b></td><td><b></b></td><td><b>San Antonio</b></td><td><b></b></td><td><b>Dallas</b></td><td><b></b></td></tr> <tr><td>@Phoenix</td><td>W</td><td>New York</td><td>W</td><td>@New Orleans</td><td>L</td><td>@Cleveland</td><td>L</td></tr> <tr><td>@L.A. Lakers</td><td>L</td><td>@Portland</td><td>L</td><td>Oklahoma City</td><td>W</td><td>@Minnesota</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td>Portland</td><td>W</td><td>@Denver</td><td>L</td><td>@Indiana</td><td>W</td><td>Miami</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td>Orlando</td><td>W</td><td>Minnesota</td><td>W</td><td>@Cleveland</td><td>L</td><td>@Memphis</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td>@Sacramento</td><td>W</td><td>@New Orleans</td><td>L</td><td>@Oklahoma City</td><td>W</td><td>Phoenix</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td>@Golden State</td><td>W</td><td>@Dallas</td><td>L</td><td>Portland</td><td>W</td><td>Utah</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td>New Orleans</td><td>W</td><td>@San Antonio</td><td>L</td><td>Utah</td><td>W</td><td>New Orleans</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td>@Dallas</td><td>W</td><td>Golden State</td><td>W</td><td>@Sacramento</td><td>W</td><td>@New Orleans</td><td>L</td></tr> <tr><td></td><td></td><td>L.A. Clippers</td><td>W</td><td>@Golden State</td><td>L</td><td>Minnesota</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td></td><td></td><td>@L.A. Lakers</td><td>L</td><td>New Orleans</td><td>W</td><td>Houston</td><td>L</td></tr> <tr><td>Predicted Finish</td><td>7-1</td><td></td><td>4-6</td><td></td><td>7-3</td><td></td><td>7-3</td></tr> <tr><td>Current Record</td><td>48-26</td><td></td><td>45-27</td><td></td><td>48-24</td><td></td><td>43-29</td></tr> <tr><td>Predicted Final Record</td><td>55-27</td><td></td><td>49-33</td><td></td><td>55-27</td><td></td><td>50-32</td></tr> <tr><td>.</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td><b>Phoenix</b></td><td><b></b></td><td><b>Denver</b></td><td><b></b></td><td><b>New Orleans</b></td><td><b></b></td><td><b>Portland</b></td><td><b></b></td></tr> <tr><td>@Sacramento</td><td>W</td><td>New York</td><td>W</td><td>San Antonio</td><td>W</td><td>Utah</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td>Houston</td><td>L</td><td>Utah</td><td>W</td><td>@Sacramento</td><td>W</td><td>@Oklahoma City</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td>Sacramento</td><td>W</td><td>L.A. Clippers</td><td>W</td><td>@L.A. Clippers</td><td>W</td><td>@Houston</td><td>L</td></tr> <tr><td>@Dallas</td><td>L</td><td>@Minnesota</td><td>W</td><td>@Golden State</td><td>L</td><td>@Memphis</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td>@New Orleans</td><td>L</td><td>Oklahoma City</td><td>W</td><td>Utah</td><td>W</td><td>@San Antonio</td><td>L</td></tr> <tr><td>@Memphis</td><td>W</td><td>@L.A. Lakers</td><td>L</td><td>@Miami</td><td>L</td><td>L.A. Lakers</td><td>L</td></tr> <tr><td>@Minnesota</td><td>W</td><td>Sacramento</td><td>W</td><td>Phoenix</td><td>W</td><td>@L.A. Clippers</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td>Memphis</td><td>W</td><td>@Portland</td><td>L</td><td>@Dallas</td><td>L</td><td>Oklahoma City</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td>Golden State</td><td>W</td><td></td><td></td><td>Dallas</td><td>W</td><td>Denver</td><td>W</td></tr> <tr><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>@Houston</td><td>L</td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>@San Antonio</td><td>L</td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td>Predicted Finish</td><td>6-3</td><td></td><td>6-2</td><td></td><td>6-5</td><td></td><td>6-3</td></tr> <tr><td>Current Record</td><td>40-33</td><td></td><td>48-26</td><td></td><td>44-27</td><td></td><td>46-27</td></tr> <tr><td>Predicted Final Record</td><td>46-36</td><td></td><td>54-28</td><td></td><td>50-32</td><td></td><td>52-30</td></tr> <tr><td>.</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td></td><td>Seed</td><td>Team</td><td>Record</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td></td><td>2</td><td>San Antonio</td><td>55-27</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td></td><td>3</td><td>Houston</td><td>55-27</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td></td><td>4</td><td>Denver</td><td>54-28</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td></td><td>5</td><td>Portland</td><td>52-30</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td></td><td>6</td><td>Dallas</td><td>50-32</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td></td><td>7</td><td>New Orleans</td><td>50-32</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td></td><td>8</td><td>Utah</td><td>49-33</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr> <tr><td></td><td>9</td><td>Phoenix</td><td>46-36</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr> </table>
Scribo, hate to nitpick but since this thread is all about the details: according to the official rules determining division winners is the 1st step in the process. Love the Magic Numbers btw, it's a great way to capture and simplify all the criteria that affect rankings!
Feigen provides the following clarification: [rquoter] Jon, Can you help me understand this playoff seeding? Just when I think I have a grasp on it ESPN and NBA.COM throw me for a loop! Don't the Rockets have the head-to-head tie breaker against Denver and since Denver is only guaranteed a top 4 spot the Rockets should be 3rd and Denver 4th, right? The other two websites have Denver at 3 and the Rox in the 4 spot. Thanks. (In seeding the division winners and top runner-up, winning a division is considered before other tie-breakers. That puts the Nuggets ahead of the Rockets in the seeding. -- Jonathan) [/rquoter] So, NBA.com, etc. have it right. Seeding is determined first by record, and second by which team won the division. But does home court advantage take winning the division into account?
I'm assuming he's talked to someone in the league, so I'll go back to using NBA standings for tonight which would have the Rockets #4. I still think the Playoff rules as they're stated on NBA's own website confirm that we'd be #3. To be honest, I'd rather be #4 and draw Portland. If anyone else hears from someone official on this, please let us know. Maybe somebody can call into Morey when he's on the radio about this.
so let me get this straight. when a division winner ties with a non division winner..no other rule matters? automatically division winner is given the better spot.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html let me put an end to all this. haha. nba.com says the tiebreaker used between denver and houston was #1. obviously #2 being the head to head record (3-1). 1) Division leader wins tie from team not leading a division (2) Head-to-head won-lost percentage (3) Division won-lost percentage (4) Conference won-lost percentage (5) W-L Percentage vs. Playoff teams, own conference (6) W-L Percentage vs. Playoff teams, other conference (7) Net Points, all games
i think feigen got it wrong. and i have no idea why nba.com says what it says. didn't they change the rules after and because of the spurs-mavs 1-4 matchup in the 2nd round in 2006?
that rule has NOTHING to do with this. that rule determines who gets the TOP FOUR seeds. the above bolded rule applies when 2 teams are tied for a spot in that top four such houston and denver for spots 3 and 4. according to the old rule this wouldn't be a problem at all since denver is guaranteed #3 for winning their division. nba.com doesn't have it wrong, neither does chron.
since i can't edit my posts.. i think this is the only time that bolded rule can be applied. when else would a division winner be tied with a non division winner?
If this is correct then the Rockets can only be seeded higher than Denver if they have more wins than the Nuggets, and cannot if they are equal. Also, the "Playoff Tie-Break Procedures" should be changed as it does not mention this at all.
We're arguing in circles here. Let's table this discussion unless we hear from someone else official about the matter. I encourage people to call the local sport shows (where's MattJ?) or write other local journalists to see if we can get more info on the matter and then post back here. I'm going to tie my standing back to the ESPN rankings, which are tied to the NBA.com rankings. That will have the Rockets back at #4. If we're still tied in a few weeks time, the scenario will get ample airtime in major publications and I'm sure we'll see an official league statement.
The 3 division winners are guarenteed a spot in the top 4 seeds. After that, playoff seedings & hca are determined by record and conference & division tie breakers.
if the division leader and the team they were tied with were tied for 8th. then the division winner gets into the playoffs and the non division winner goes home.
You know what? Dallas had this happen a couple of years ago, and they got the 3 seed I think.... I believe in the case of a two team tie break......the Rockets would win with Denver.....and be a 3rd seed....but I am not 100% sure. DD
