Without a deal, he'd be a free agent this summer. With the deal, he's ours to trade. On the other hand, whoever wants him has to pay $42M over seven years. Should we really regret having signed him? At his size and with his athleticism (which are damned hard to find, even without a great offensive game), isn't he worth quite a bit -- from another team's viewpoint, worth taking on the salary to which we signed him -- in a trade? If so, why should we agonize over the deal? Sure, I'm pissed at Cato and his agent. My interpretation of the leak from Rockets management about how "disappointed" they are is that Cato busted his butt in the preseason, and he and his agent promised that if he got his money up front he'd earn it, and the Rockets did their part, and Cato didn't do his. Once an agent has conned you into a situation like that, all you can do is let it be known who screwed whom. Even so, I'm happy he's ours to deal, if we so choose.
Who's a better center for the Rockets to bring in? It's not an easy position to fill, and if the Rockets intend to move him, I'm just wondering who would be available (either in the NBA, draft, or CBA) to fill the position. Actually, I don't mind Pig starting. I think he's underrated. ------------------
I couldn't agree more. There has to be a market for, as you stated, a young, athletic, defensive oriented big man who is tied up in a long term deal. ------------------
I can see certain teams be very interested in having Cato on their line up.. Philly , phoenix , NY (their strenght is the back court and an ancient center that will need to be replaced soon ) and others.. even the Spurs if they feel that Timmy is gonna ge gone... they rather have something in return then nothing and Cato is an athletic big guy that could help them out some either by keeping him or by them trading him for other players...... ------------------ Thanks Hakeem for all the memories and the 2 championships... The torch has been passed... Francis , the making of brand new great memories for us rocket fans !
Detroit, LA, Toronto, and Chicago as well. Ponder those trade possibilities for a moment. ------------------
If he's such a hot property, how are the Rockets actually going to replace him? Man, I wish Cato would just get his head on straight and save the Rockets the grief! ------------------
in cato's defense, hasnt he been hurt most of the year ? he doesnt seem to be a real heady player, but seems to have great instincts, i know that sounds oxymoronic, but oh well. When he is on the court, he seems to play hard and seems rather intense, i may be biased though. ------------------ "Don't they get cable in Canada ?" Keith olbermann, after watching hakeem block terry catledge's shot 5 times.
Cato will be the perfect example of promising talent never realized. He's just like Derrick Coleman. Undeniable skills, no work ethic. As long as he's reasonably young, teams will want him on their squad...always hoping that he will finally turn things around and perform like he should. Interest in such a player is always dangerous. ------------------ Nederland 2000 NBA+stupidity=Brand ROY NBA+common sense=Franchise MVP Houston Rockets Space Center- Not just another ClutchCity.NET clone. We're that and more!
oakdogg- I'm with you. Who can replace Cato? In terms of youth and athleticism, nobody. Nobody in the NBA or draft has this kind of size with this kind of athleticism at his age. In truth, he is the perfect center for the future Rockets. If only he would play with the passion he had in the preseason! I will be disappointed if he is traded in the offseason, unless he brings us a big time player. I'm very pissed about his performance this season, but I would give him more time before deciding that he truly doesn't have the heart. There must be some way to rekindle the fire he played with in the preseason! Even with his poor performance, he is 6th in the league in blocked shots per 48 minutes, above Shaq and Robinson. I say give him more time. ------------------
I don't begrudge those of you the desire to give Cato more time. Based on his stint with the Rockets only, I'd say that the jury would still be out. With that being said, I CAN ONLY HOPE THAT THE ROCKETS GET RID OF CATO THIS SUMMER. Let me say why (I've said some of this on another post): I watched Cato in 4 different games while I was still in college. Iowa State had some pretty good games against UT during Cato's senior year. I, being a Longhorn, was glad that he was playing for Iowa State. Yes, he blocks shots and can run the floor when he wants to. But he was a totally raw player with no other skills. He couldn't shoot, he couldn't body up and box out (as a consequence, he wasn't a good rebounder because he was forced to outjump somebody everytime), he couldn't score over the likes of Sonny Alvarado (who, incidently, was 6'7" with a 10" vertical), and he was mentally weak, allowing the refs and the crowd to take him out of the game by complaining all the time. I was surprised when Portland picked him in the first round and was shocked when the Rockets dealt for him and gave him the contract. He hasn't improved since those days when he played at Iowa State. Some will argue that he hasn't been given the time to grow because he sat on the bench his first two years, but I don't understand why a player can't/won't develop to some lesser extent even through practicing with the team. Cato has had 3 years in the league now, playing (even if it's only in practice) against NBA quality competition, 2 offseasons to get stronger and more mature, and one entire season of being a primary player with major minutes and a starter. YET, he still looks to be the same player he was back in college. All of those deficiencies I listed for him back in college, I'd say are still present today, even to similar levels. Looking back, those half-dozen preseason games lead most of us (myself included) to think that Cato was going to be a player. Now with this season as part of the body of evidence, I think that the player Cato was in college, his first two years with Portland, and this regular season are a much better indication of Kelvin's ability to play the game than those relatively meaningless games in the preseason. If Cato can fetch the Rockets a quality player in a trade, I'd be elated. I don't really care if they get someone better to take his place. I'd want the cap space, quite honestly, because I don't think that he's going to get better. Take a downgrade at the center position this year and go after Webber next year (I'm not sure if Webber will be available, if he likes Houston, etc. It was only an example.) With the absolute lack of quality big men in the league, I can understand the Rockets gambling on Cato after the preseason. Now, do I regret signing him? Only if he's still on the team next year. ------------------ [This message has been edited by triplebogey (edited April 19, 2000).]
"As long as he's reasonably young, teams will want him on their squad...always hoping that he will finally turn things around and perform like he should. Interest in such a player is always dangerous." Ace: I'm a bit ambivalent about Cato too, but I'd point out that waiting on such items can pay off too. I'd be inclined to trade him for someone who's already proven - like a Duncan - who knows, maybe the Spurs'll be stuck with a trade-for-youth situation? , but otherwise I'd give him another season to prove his stuff. We've seen glances of what he can do, but unfortunately we've seen a stark lack of fire on the court, too. Anyone who stands there doing nothing, makes a stupid foul, whines at the ref, and then pouts like a baby when he gets a T is not showing fire - especially when he's supposed to be the quiet, pissed-off big man who wins all rebound races and denies every easy shot with the swat of a finger... What I'm trying to say is that, our disappointment with his current play aside, we should not automatically consider him to be tradebait. Especially if that customary magical offseason 'Rudy T' acquisition doesn't pan out (i.e., we don't get the star big man we need)... ------------------
I keep rerading in this post that Cato has the potential, which is true. But don't you think a player who couldn'g get playing time on a deep Portland team would be busting his a$$ every second of every game? He got his money and now he is satisfied. We overpaid for potential, which, IMO, will only be realized in 5 years, when his contract is in the last year. Potential never made one team good. I would rather have a player that plays with heart, like Pig, on the floor than Cato. ------------------
Oakdogg: What is there to be replaced in the first place? I'm sure I could go out on the street and find you a 6'9 guy who could average 5 boards and 2 points on a consistent basis. ------------------ $42million. 7 years.
The thing that sticks out in my head whenever I think about is Cato is how he played Shaq straight up in the NBC game we won against the Lakers. Now, I haven't seen all the centers in the league play against Shaq, but the only other guy I've seen play Shaq comparably well was Greg Ostertag. In fact, I think Ostertag is a good comparison for Cato: a talented big man without the mental toughness to be a consistent factor in games but who seems to step it up in big games. it might not seem conducive to winning a championship to have flakes like that on your team, but Utah's gotten to the finalas twice with Ostertag. To ever get through the Western Conference, we're going to have to get through the Lakers, so I tend to value a guy who can play Shaq well. I mean we all saw how Olajuwan fared against him. Shoot, the Kandi man, who we've all talked about, has gotten torched consistently by Shaq, recently for 60 some points. If you take Cato's stats and put them over 35 minutes, he's averaging about 9 boards and 3 blocks, pretty good numbers. Leaving potential aside, I think Cato adds something to this team. Looking around the league, I see a lot of teams really looking for centers who can do what Cato does, which is why I asked the question of how the Rockets intend to fill that void in the middle. I just hope a Jim McIlvane/Seattle situation doesn't develop where guys like Cat compare their salary/compensation to Cato's, but I've heard the team has good chemistry. I think it might be a good idea for the Rockets to bring a guy who can get his blocks and also has a good attitude for somewhat cheap. I agree with another poster that Adonal Foyle would be a good candidate if he could be gotten for the million dollar exception. I don't know how plausible that is, but it sounds somewhat reasonable considering that's how much a guy like Rodney Rogers signed with Phoenix after playing with the Clippers. ------------------
Cato is doing nothing different then Olajawon was doing. They are both not involved in the offense, and tend to get uninterested in the games. Rudy needs to get the front court involved more, or this team will flounder in the playoffs. Outside shooting does not win championships, and if you drive in the playoffs you get put on your ear. DaDakota ------------------
Part of that $6 million/season price-tag is just paying for height. You need to be tall to play C, and Cato is that. Mobley can compare his value to the team to Cato's and say he's worth more becuase he scores the points (and sometimes gets more rebounds -- ugh!), but he isn't because he can't play center. Adequate centers are very rare. And Cato does (if barely) pass for adequate. I think it is true that Cato will draw interest in the market. People know what he is capable of. Just because it hasn't been brought out on the Rockets squad, doesn't mean it can't be brought out on other teams. So I think a lot of teams will realize $6 million/season is the going rate for a tall stiff (or just a little bit on the steep side) and pretty cheap if Cato eventually produces what he has shown potential for. But for this same reason, I'd be hesitant to deal him. If he did put in the work (he did say a month or so ago that he was disappointed with his play this season and that he was going to bulk up some in the offseason and work on his game), he'd be fantastic. And, looking at the market and barring a miracle, Cato is irreplaceable. I think he may be our only chance for a good center. ------------------
We're letting the contract stick in our minds too much. Look around at the other contracts big men are making. That's how it works when a physical specimen like Cato is so rare. Look, I'm going to pull my hair out if we have to talk in the BBS next year about the hole at center. How many teams fit this description: -Yeah, they have a lot of talent, good players, but they'll never go far in the playoffs without some true muscle up front. or: -Sure, they're playing hot now, but wait till they face Shaq and the Lakers, or the twin towers, or Malone, or the big men on the Portland roster.... The lack of a defensive presence in the middle is the one quality so many teams are dying for! It is practically the defining element of second-round wannabes! Seattle, Phoenix, Minnesota, all of these guys would be overjoyed to take Cato's contract if they could have a player like him! I swear to God, I'm going to slit my wrists if the old talk about 'no backcourt' is replaced with 'no center'. A player like Cato is so incredibly rare- he is the only legit center of his age with this kind of athleticism in the enire leauge or draft! He's the perfect fit for the Rockets, can run the floor and throw down alley-oops with the best of them. He's young and will grow with the rest of our nucleus. And keep this in mind: Utah, Portland, and San Antonio will all sink while the Lakers build a dynasty. And two young teams will grow to challenge that dynasty in the future- Minnesota and the Rockets. Cato is one of maybe three players in the NBA who can defend Shaq straight up. Cato is the only reason the team doesn't look like a bunch of midgets out there. Don't complain about undersized PF's and then say we need to get rid of Cato. DaDakota is dead on. The offense needs to involve the big men more. Not only does Cato have to work hard on his game this summer, but Rudy must also add folds in the offense to better incorporate Cato and Olajuwon. If they are involved in the scoring, they are more involved in the game as a whole. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Nolen (edited April 19, 2000).]
Some of you are passionate about what Kelvin Cato is in comparison to the rest of the NBA big men. That's cool. But I wouldn't go as far as saying that Cato has the ability to defend Shaq straight up. I watched the Lakers game on NBC. I was pumped that Cato didn't get crushed by Shaq and especially pumped when Cato swatted Shaq's shot away at the end of the game. Does that game lead me to think that Kelvin can defend Shaq one-on-one? Not really. For those of you that think Cato needs to be more involved in the offense, what do you propose Rudy do? Do you propose the Rockets actually run post up plays for him? The man does not have a low post game. He doesn't have a turnaround, he doesn't have a jump hook, he doesn't have a drop step. He dunks the ball, but those come off of alley-oops and feeds from Cat and Francis penetrations. Do you propose that the Rockets run pick and rolls with Cato? He doesn't have range to hit a 15' shot. He has athleticism but can't handle the ball and get past his man on the perimeter. In short, he's not a threat in the perimeter, either. So my question is: What does Cato bring to the table in terms of skills that makes him a viable option on offense? How is Rudy supposed to get him more involved on offense if he doesn't have skills and isn't respected by the defense as a threat? (If you want Cato more involved in the offense, tell him to hit the offensive boards and go after the ball with some heart.) I don't buy the fact that a player needs to have plays run for him in order to feel involved in the gamne and stay active. Comparing him to Olajuwon's play this year may be convenient, but it's not accurate. Olajuwon has been hurt, he's old, and, frankly, doesn't have much left to prove. None of those descriptions apply to Kelvin Cato. He better be motivated because he's a young guy with everything still left to prove in this league. So if Olajuwon seems disinterested, fine. I'll let another thread discuss the reasons why. As for Cato, he doesn't have the luxury of being complacent, regardless of his role on offense. Don't tell me that he needs more "involvement" in the offense in order for him to do the other more critical aspects of his job, such as rebounding and playing defense. If that was the case, a player like Bo Outlaw wouldn't even be in the league! Instead, Outlaw (who never gets a play run for him) outhustles everyone else on the court. He blocks shots, even though he's only 6'8" and he plays hard on defense. Even in the absence of skills, Outlaw's desire and athleticism make him a real player in the league. He gets his points on put-backs and running the break. I don't hear many people calling for Doc Rivers to run plays for Bo Outlaw. Is Outlaw a step down from Cato in terms of offensive skills? No, they're both limited. The reason why you don't hear this arguement attached to a player like Outlaw is because the man understands his game, understands his role, and most importantly, has the heart and self-respect to play hard and earn his paycheck. ------------------ [This message has been edited by triplebogey (edited April 19, 2000).]
Cato appears to be very similar to Theo Ratliff. Defense first, occassional offense and adequate rebounding. Ratliff took several years to develop any sort of consistency. He did just in time to get a huge contract. The problem with Cato is he got the big contract before he got consistent. That could spell big trouble. At this point, he is tradeable because he's still young and he is big. He's also desirable to keep around because he could develop. He could end up going either way. I'd think a team in the Rockets situation (young and building) should keep him around another year and see if he develops more. ------------------
Good point Hobbs. For some reason I had thought Cato had been around as long as Ratliff but he hasn't. Ratliff's performance (I am hoping Cato becomes as effective as Ratliff) through his first 3 years was very comparable to Cato's. While I agree Cato's performance hasn't met expectations, the guy has only been in the league 3 years and hasn't gotten a lot of PT--due to him playing with a deep Blazaer team and due to injury. If you want to get depressed about overpayed underperforming big people--think of Dampier, Oestertag, Pota-pinko, McIllvane, Geiger, Bradley, Reeves or his former stablemate Jermain Oneal. I would much rather have Cato's performance per $ and potential than most of the above guys. That said, for the individual determination and dedication factor, I would rather have Camby, Ratliff or Kandi if we could swing a trade with Cato plus a little (e.g., Drew, pick) extra. But I want to keep Cato more so than any other front line player unless we get a better shot blocking and post-defender in the process. ------------------
