inside you will find the most in depth dissertation of clutchfansology ever conducted

I kind of think it would help to close those threads. Sort of a 'cut out the noise' kind of thing. It's kind of depressing to go into the GARM, for example, and see all that staring you in the face.

I'm just thinking of quantity. Lots of threads that do the kind of stuff you guys would have to close/merge/monitor. The same topics, stuff that can go in other threads, kneejerk 'joke threads' after games, multiple threads about the same guy, general trolling, etc. etc.

Of course, that's much more prominent during certain times, for sure.

Still, I understand you can't make someone be a 'better poster', but it seems like there aren't enough of you guys to hold back the rush sometimes. And even then those of you that are there can't be there all the time.

Yeah, although that's kind of what I'm referring about. Trim down those people who are spamming the threads with the same stuff, or who do the threadjacking.

I guess it's just seems like as the volume goes up (both in the number of posters and what they are posting), it's kind of refreshing to see it toned down a bit. It doesn't seem so much like you are wading into the pit, trying to speak normally when the everyone else is screaming.

Out of curiosity, how many of you are regularly 'active'? It doesn't seem like many, but that could just be one of those 'it just seems that way' situations. I can think of you, Clutch, Jeff (though he hasn't posted much lately)... just doesn't seem like I can think of too many folks, but I might just not be paying enough attention.

I've posted on a few of 'big' boards, and it just seems for a place with this large of a userbase you guys have a much smaller moderation crew than others. But again, maybe I'm wrong on that.

 

I can't speak for the others, but I'm not as active as I used to be. I got pulled into some of the garbage going on in the forums the past couple of years and had to step away from the insanity. I'm slowly trying to get back into it, though. I doubt I'll ever post much again, however - I've gotten to that point others have mentioned in the forum where I'd rather visit the zoo than be behind the bars.

Honestly, that's something Clutch can probably answer better, but in the past, people pretty much policed themselves. Clutch probably already does a lot of crap that goes unnoticed, too. There's never really been a need for huge "mod squads". Nowadays it's like I want to ban every other poster and 90% of the threads should be closed sometimes just to get back to "the way it was", but that's wrong, too. I've always thought if the board/fans hate a player or coach, it should be allowed to be expressed as long as it's expressed intellgiently and not in every other thread in the forum.

 

I'm only 19 and I have outgrown the garm, I can't stand arguing with idiots anymore.

 

Yeah, I agree with this.

That's something I suggested a couple of years ago. I think it could be something neat as long as it doesn't alienate others and the selected users actually post and not let it die. As for how easy it is to implement, it shouldn't be difficult with vBulletin's software, but again, only Clutch an answer that with the way he has the forum set up. Whether or not it will work is the big question. I always thought it would somewhat solve the problem of good posters being drowned out by the noise.

 

That would be interesting but the only problem would be with quality new posters - how would you know to add them if you could never see them?

I would participate in something that was more limited. I moved away from the GARM when I moved out of state and couldn't watch games as much. By the time I came back everything was different and noisy in there. These days I mostly scan threads that sound interesting - if I recognize names and they register as "good" I will read the posts and ignore the rest.

 

That was lame.
Just embrace more fans and stop alienating.

 

You're lame.

 

I asked several times for an additional Rockets GARM Forum to be created. Everybody would be welcome to start, but there would be an <i>Upfront Notice</i> that the quality expectations would be high. Those who failed would lose their posting privileges in the new GARM Forum, so they couldn't say that they lacked an outlet to voice as a Rockets fan. The <i>Losers</i> would still have the original GARM Forum to post in. Yes, there would be an initial need for strong <i>Policing</i> in the new GARM, but after a few <i>Losers</i> were hung out to dry in <i>Public</i>, many of the potential <i>Losers</i> would get the message and fall into line. There would still be some obstinate ones who would think that they could beat the <i>System</i> and still act foolish, but they would continue to get washed out.


<hr>

You were hoping for a higher -stronger degree of <i>Moderation</i> in the D&D. I finally accepted several ago that it wasn't going to happen and gave up on the D&D. I would still be there if an <i>Authority</i> would have come by every once in a while and tapped the underperformers on <i>the shoulder or back of the head Benny Hill style</i> and told them that the <i>conversation</i> was to be conducted at a certain level and they weren't currently at that level. Then the offender could either raise their <i>Game</i> or decide to post elsewhere. No need to reply to the <i>Authority</i>, just comply. My basic <i>Rule of Thumb</i> for the D&D was/is, <b>You Post It, You Own It</b>. Even if they were quoting a <i>Source</i>, it still belonged to them. If they had no knowledge and/or intention of discussing the topic, then why post in a forum named <i>Debate & Discussion</i>? Sadly, very few had the same <i>Rule of Thumb</i>. That left me three choices

1. Continue to complain & be frustrated.
<i>It became pointless to continue to complain since it was apparent that things weren't going to be changed to suit me.</i>.

2. Shut up and accept that the expectations -- standards in the D&D weren't going to improve.
<i>I am happy with my expectations -- standards and I am not going to lower them.</i>

3. Throw in the towel and move on.
<i>The path taken.</i>

<hr>

Other than a few cameo appearances elsewhere, that is correct.

<hr>

I have had some interesting conversations with you over the years. Sometimes in agreement and sometimes in opposition, but always with quality.

In regards to particular Forums:

Hangout:
I could be thrown in the same age group as <i>Deckard</i> and some of the topics in the Hangout don't fit me very well.

D&D Forum:
In regards to the D&D, I covered above.

The Texans & Astros Forum:
I might read a particular thread if there is significant <i>News of the Day</i>, but it isn't a regular read.

NBA Dish:
A regular read because it is active enough to be interesting, but still <i>hidden</i> enough that it isn't (<i>not sure what word to use</i>) like the GARM.

GARM:
Inconsistent quality which has been mentioned by many. My solution is covered above.

Thank you for remembering me.

 

Great post, thecabbage.


I generally agree with everything you said. I fall in the category of lurking in the GARM every once in a while, and posting stupid one liners that I think are funny but no one else does.

Honestly, when I come to the BBS, I go straight to the Hangout. I enjoy the posters and threads in the hangout, and I get a lot of info this way, also.

I usually check out the Astros/Texans forum, too, but my ability to post quality posts in there has dropped (if it ever was high quality), since I moved from Houston years ago.

I drop by the D&D, too, but I'm not the greatest at debating, as I fall significantly under your age range for that forum (with experience comes knowledge).

Wherever I post, I always wait for a good bashing from Moes...

 

maybe this hypothetical forum proposed by Mango could have rules similar to the Something Awful forum. For those that don't know, Something Awful has literally hundreds of thousands of members but the conversations there are almost always great because

A) ten bucks to sign up and be able to post (an awful idea for this forum)
and
B) their rules are very strict and those who break them are at the least temporarily banned to give time to reflect (an excellent idea for this forum)

 

Awesome thread. It's all about the Hangout and NBA Dish. I visited D&D pretty often before the presidential election. The College and NBA Draft could be fun before the draft. The Feedback is also a great addition.

 

One military oriented BBS that I am partial to has a:

* Group
* Conclave
* Assembly
* Council

of esteemed posters that decide if someone gets a timeout or even a permanent ban. I don't have an actual headcount for the size of the leadership group, but 6 - 8 people seems to be fairly close.

The deliberations are done in private and the member under review has a temporary suspension until a resolution is arrived at. Even if someone is allowed to stay, they are issued a public notice that they need to improve.

Another BBS that I read has a system that is somewhat similar with public warnings to offenders.

However, both of those other Message Boards have an older membership base than Clutchfans does.

 

This is what I saw.

 

I'm primarily a lurker, but I agree with the others in that the GARM is virtually unreadable now. It's basically "He's good" "He sucks" or "He's o.k."

I probably spend a little time in the NBA, Hangout, and Texas Sports forums, but rarely post unless I want to find a black-owned gun store or make a thread about Rice sports

Never really set foot into the D&D, though...

 

Mango, I was on a personal "crusade" to raise the level of civility in D&D for several months. You might recall seeing my "Keep D&D Civil!" at the bottom of my posts, above my signature. I always owned up to being an imperfect creature myself (as you well know), but felt the attempt justified. For a while, there were threats (credible? perhaps) to just shut D&D down, which motivated me. It did improve somewhat and is still not as "bad" as it was, IMO. Nothing to do with me, but rather a confluence of actors and events.

Really, it's getting a bit boring for me. The last few years of "fighting the good fight" in regards to the war(s), civil rights/personal freedoms, the environment, the mid-term and then the presidential elections, leading to the amazing showdown between Clinton and Obama... maybe I've exhausted the subject just a bit. What bothers me more than anything, besides the numerous things that bother me about the GARM, is this fiction tossed about by folks who rarely poke their nose into D&D, don't seriously try to participate, and then make sweeping comments about how polarized it is, and what a waste of time it's become. If you dig around, you can find some very good discussions. And you don't have to did nearly as much as you do in the GARM.


The GARM? I started lurking here in the spring before the Francis trade, so I remember when the BBS was almost a completely different animal. There were "larger than life" people here, who impressed me deeply with their basketball knowledge and what they knew of Rockets lore. Best of all, many had a variety of interests, frequently coinciding with my own, outside of the Rockets and the NBA. While some here might laugh, I find the BBS to have a decent percentage of its population well versed in things like literature, music, other aspects of culture, foreign affairs, politics, environmental issues, and on and on. I frequently get surprised by members that never gave a clue that they knew a lot about "fill in the blank." So why does the GARM have so many perceived problems? Obviously, the huge numbers of members today are a big chunk of the problem. Worse than the huge numbers, are the huge numbers of threads, far too often of the same topic. I find it hard to find where I had posted last without a search. I'm lazy. I'd rather not go to the trouble more than once in a while.

Another problem, for me, anyway, are the very, very long threads, sometimes stickies, that have such a volume of material that, unless I kept up since the beginning, finding posts that interest me might mean scanning numerous pages for someone I recognize. I always read those posts, when I find them, but it can be a frustrating exercise.

At any rate... the Rockets Won!

 

Deckard:

I don't think Mango was complaining about the D&D's relative civility. That's your angle, not his. Or mine. Mango's right that I once held out hope it would be more closely moderated (it's insane that basso's still allowed to post here, for example) but that hope was silly. This is a Rockets fan site. The D&D was created to keep those discussions from poisoning the community well. No mods here ever promised to properly police political discussions. So ultimately, after years of weird flagrants on one end and flopping on the other, I got bored with it. But it was never about civility. It was about wanting to have an honest debate. But, like I said before, debating strangers is boring to me now anyway.

This site is, for me, mostly just the best clearinghouse of Rockets info (and NBA info) anywhere on the web. And, since the Rockets are one of my top interests, I'm here every morning when I wake up (not the Chronicle, ESPN, SI or wherever) looking for the latest scoop. And the latest prevailing opinions.

That's the main reason I come here, and the main reason I always have. The secondary reason is that I've gotten to sort of know some of the people here in an internetty sort of way and so I also enjoy the D&D (still) and the Hangout. And if I have a question about some random thing I always post it to the Hangout because, again, I know people here.

But the internet's changing all the time as people of our age become dinosaurs and other younger ones take over. It will sort itself out. I'm just along for the ride.

 

Deckard

I realized and appreciated your efforts in the D&D, but <i>Batman Jones</i> is correct about my angle.

It just struck me as being <i>wrong</i> (nicest word that I can think of) for people to come into the D&D and act like they were a:

<i>
* Player
* Big Dog
* Adult
* Real Deal
* Big Leaguer
etc
</i>
and then they refused to give a serious Debate & Discussion. I could go to various news sites for interesting stories and didn't need the D&D for that. In a Forum labeled <i>Debate & Discussion</i>, that is what I expected.

<hr>

Batman Jones

I still scan the D&D and saw a thread in which you lashed out and targeted Basso. Sensed that was your <i>tipping point</i> and you did scale back signifcantly in the D&D after that. I was never able to get increased <i>Moderation</i> and the removal of posters that failed to perform to an acceptable level (my POV) and seriously doubted that you would get it.

<hr>

thacabbage

My proposal is that everybody would be welcome in the New GARM to start. There would be a notice upfront letting people know that the expectations are high and examples would be given to illustrate of what not to do. If somebody washed themselves out, then it would be their own fault.

A small committee - conclave could review & possibly remove those who couldn't keep up in the New GARM.

Off the top of my head, here are four names for the committee - conclave.

<i>
* Hayesfan
* thacabbage
* A_3PO
* codell
</i>

Yes, there would be some who washed out and then rehabbed themselves enough to be returned to the new GARM and they would have to be identified and promoted back.

 

qft.

I used to post on the GARM a long time ago. Now, as thecabbage pointed out quite succinctly, I only give occasional one liners. I post more in the dish if I want to talk basketball - way less idiots.

Like a lot of other former D&D addicts, that place is just plain silly now. It's a cadre of three or four obnoxious and unregulated trolls wreaking havoc on a group of 12 or so fools who continue to respond to every trolling post no matter how much you plead for them to let it go already. It's a bad joke. The only saving grace were philosophical-type threads with madmax and a few others. But even those are getting played out or overrun with trolls of a different caliber.

Which leaves the hangout, where I mainly cruise for funny (albeit juvenile) threads.