About Rick Adelman VS Phil Jackson,Larry Brown,Gregg Popovich

I agree with you for the most part, but when we were down by 1 with less than 30 seconds to go, can we agree that it was Adelman's fault for calling a terrible play? Why did we have Yao come out to set a pick for Brooks rather than calling a play to get the ball to Yao? I doubt Aaron just went off on his own and made that decision - there was a conscious decision to have Yao come out and set the pick away from the basket! Plus throughout the season Adelman has just made some odd decisions. Early on in the season we lost a few games because he pulled out the bench players who brought us back into the game to put in the starters that had practically lost us the game already. We had a chance to win this game, but even if Ron had made that 3 and we have won it in over time, I'd be left scratching my head as to why Aaron doing a reverse layup was our first option when you have Yao Ming and Ron Artest in the game.

I've never been a fan of Adelman and he's not doing anything to change that opinion.

 

OP is right, RA will get outcoached by Pops and Nazi TV hands down. No disrespect to RA though, he's not bad, but 2 are better. You just have to get lucky or screw the below .500 teams and come up with some kind of game plan like 1 week early, watch lots of videos, have your guys come in/out at the right times, time outs to disrupt momentum, draw out plays after timeouts, watch your matchups, run different defense sets, rally the troops, coaching is underrated, a lot of folks won't agree, but you see teams switch coaches and win rate changes drastically (see Sam Mitchell, Toronto Raptors)

 

You mean look at right now where the Rockets were #3 in the West heading into tonight's game? That's supposed to show how much better Popovich is? Or you mean look at right now where Popovich has Duncan, who is better than anyone on the Rockets? Or where Popovich has Finals MVP Parker and Adelman has Brooks? And he's barely ahead of the Rockets? That "right now"? That's your "slam dunk" case? I'm also trying to find the 22 million dollar player that Popovich has played without all year; can you help me out there? I'm having trouble finding one.

 

What? Why are people here even thinking that coaches don't have an effect? Who the heck decides the player rotations, the sets to run and the minutes each player gets? Who sets the offensive and defensive philosophies the team has? All of those are made by the coach, and that's just on the court.

Off the court he's the one who trains the players, develops their skills and boosts their morale. Most coaches also have a say on the pleyer transactions. And you're saying they are unimportant?

This isn't fantasy league. Just because you have good players doesn't mean you're going to win the game. A lot of people here act like PJ was just at the right place and the right time when he won those rings. Well, MJ and Shaq didn't win a ring before he got there.

If players were all that mattered, then why did the Pistons destroy the Lakers with Malone and Payton? Why did the Warriors knockout the Mavs, then miss the playoffs entirely right after? Why did the Mavs got ousted by the Heat when the Mavs team was obviously superior in every way?

And people who are saying Pop owes all his wins to Duncan obviously don't know what they're talking about. If the Celtics won the lottery that year and got him I guarantee you for sure Duncan wouldn't be called the greatest PF of all time today.

 

Pop is my personal COY winner because of how he got his team to win games when his stars were out at the beginning of the year. Even now they're still dealing with injuries. On the other hand, Adelman's ridiculous loyalty to starters, along with questionable rotations have cost us games we had no business losing. Looks like his loyalty to Alston has now transferred to Brooks unfortunately.

 

I'm being more specific than that. Answer my questions on which category is Adelman better than Pop. None. You act like Tim Duncan is Kobe Bryant. He isn't. He's a great player but is past his prime. A few days ago, only TP was healthy as TD and Manu were both out. They beat Dallas by 17 and Portland by about 15. The Spurs have been bit by the injury bug all year. Some people left them for dead after their 1-4 start without Manu. What happens? Despite injuries all season long, they roar back and have command of the #2 seed.

So, yes, Pop has done better this season than Adelman. No doubt about it. Since you refuse to discuss the specifics I bring up about each coach, answer this question: Is Adelman as good a coach as Pop? Yes or no.

Honestly, if you think having Tim Duncan would solve all of Adelman's problems, you don't have a clue. Pop creates a culture for a team that all players must buy into. Adelman wouldn't have a clue how to do this. He lets the players set the culture.

 

A I love your Collins commentary comment! roflmao!

I like a lot of what you say BUT I have some big differences to point out and some additional clarifications.

Adelman is not a tough hard fouling or dirty coach - which to different degrees Pop, Sloan and Tom Thibodeaux are!!! Advantage hard to dirty coaches.

NBA Stern and refs advantage to the big name teams with big name coaches. Advantage Celtics Lakers and now the Spurs joining that club. No idea why. But they have that TD aura now.

NBA fix in for lopsided trades: Celtics Ainge and his assistant GM Kevin McHale. Lakers and Jerry West errrr Grizzlies.

Stable environments with franchise, drafting, having players that fit your philosophy: Spurs, Jazz, Lakers. NOT: Rockets with ten years of poor player acquisition. Admittedly JVG was still struggling to get the roster in the kind of shape that fit his style which scared me to death. Now Adelman and Morey have had only 1 & 1/2 seasons to re-shape a JVG tilted roster into one that can play RA's motion offense. Compared to the Spurs' stability the Rockets are about ten years behind. Quality of roster? advantage Spurs. Knowledge of system? BIG ADVANTAGE SPURS. This is why the Spurs and Jazz keep winning when their big guys go down.

Conclusion: Adelman is working miracles. He needs to teach and play a harder fouling and borderline dirty defensive philosophy in order to match up better when playing the Celtics, Spurs, Jazz and Lakers. Lowry is the first player I've seen who encompasses this skill. This is why Sloan had Harpring knock Kyle down hard twice in the last game - he wants to stop this change in its tracks before it becomes a team wide talent. Even AK slammed Battier hard with both fists across the top of the head after shooting a 3 - Sloan wants the Rockets to know there is a price to pay for playing hard and he is asking them if they are willing to pay the price.

I think you are right about Pop (like Sloan) setting a culture that the players MUST agree to believe and play. Korver is so much dirtier than he ever was with Philly. And it seems like RA may ask this with his motion offense and his defensive team play, but definitely not with an overall hard hitting borderline dirty philosophy like Pop & Sloan.

BTW I would like to see Artest and Battier spend some time on Deron Williams the next time we play the Jazz and see if disrupting their main ball handler with some tough D can disrupt the entirre offense.

 

Strange thread full of glitches

First you compare RA with Phil, Brown, Pop...then you conclude with RA never will win Phil, which is true. You had 3 so-called supporting factors that compares RA with pop, brown, and phil to say that he is not better than phil?

Secondly, a lost is a lost; a win is a win. Last time I checked I don't recall seeing a record called nearly lost. You made it sound like as if we didn't win Bobcats. Why don't you say we nearly won those games against RA and Pop?

Lastly, it's very visible that you are pretty negative and trying hard to blur this fact by saying "To be honest,RA is a great coach." It doesn't really blend into what you are trying say.

I expect seeing threads like these though, esp after a lose. I wonder why these threads are never visible after a "nearly lose" game.

 

Name few coaches that Rockets can get now will do better jobs? I can only think none. Rick's game style and rockets game may not match well, but RA definitely is one top coach in the league. And I am pleased with rockets current seed position with tamc out. Pls dont bash coach with few losses.

 

I really get frustrated because people who have absolutely no clue keep on making new pointless threads like this one. Rick Adelman handled Ron Artest. The Tracy McGrady drama. The locker room implosion. The in and outs. The injuries, the instability. With our team, as unstable and unshapen it is, there is no coach better for the job.

 

Again: Let's forget history and talk about right now. I'll make one comment: Pop's absolute control over everything is the reason for the stability in San Antonio. Not only do the players answer only to him, so does everyone in their front office. Don't let his singular title of coach mislead you. He is really both coach and GM.

Regarding Stern, refs and "aura", forget that too. I can't quantify blue smoke and mirrors. I CAN quantify what I observe on the floor.

I'm not saying Adelman is a bad coach, just that he doesn't belong in the conversation with Pop. Maybe he was all-world in Portland and Sacramento and has lost a little off his fastball. Whatever the reason, at this moment, Pop is better hands down. And not because Tim Duncan is some kind of magic potion that solves all problems. I quantified exactly why Pop is better and it stands: managing a game, making substitutions, controlling his players, thinking outside the box and play-calling in end of game situations.

 

Wow. Way to reduce the NBA coaching profession to merely a game of "luck". Did you come up with this brilliant argument all by yourself?

 

I agree. Popovich and Phil Jackson are better coaches than the Adelman. Are the Rockets going to get them? NO.

Adelman isn't perfect and this team is far from perfect but given all of the turmoil that this team has gone through this season I think he is doing a pretty good job.

Also in regard to Adelman being a lateral move at best to JVG consider the last season where we had so many players missing games and turmoil was in 2006 and we didn't even make the playoffs. Adelman in the last two seasons has dealt with the loss of the two franchise players near the end of the season. Last year the team realed off 10 wins a row and this year we are still in contention near the top of the Western Conference.

 

Can't help but writing down this.
Best coaches in NBA(in no particular order): Phil Jackson, Greg Popvich, Pat Riley.
Better coaches: Larry Brown.
Above Average coaches(in no particular order): Doc Rivers, the Van Gundies, Rick Adleman, Rick Carlise...

 

Collins was breaking down almost everyday at that point because he couldn't handle the pressure from the GM (Krause) and from MJ. Collins couldn't handle Jordan, and MJ lost respect for him as a coach. There's no way Collins takes the Bulls to the championship.

 

Went out of town last week and lost this thread.

Is this what you're talking about:
managing a game, making substitutions, controlling his players, thinking outside the box and play-calling in end of game situations.

Every single one of those things is subjective. Here's some that are not - injuries, talent, and the standings. Moreover, who says the things you list are what makes a good NBA coach? You don't get to decide that; maybe I don't agree. Here are the two factors that make an NBA coach great: 1) players, 2) winning. Very objective. That's it.

Duncan is still a top 5 player. He's a tier above Yao Ming and better than anyone on the Rockets or anyone Adelman has ever coached.

I don't really care about two random games during an 82-game season. The Rockets have had just as many injuries, if not more, than SA. For instance:

Games missed:
Parker - 10, Duncan - 5, Manu - 31
Artest - 13, Yao - 4, McGrady - 37

What the Rockets are doing this year is more impressive than the Spurs, bottom line. The Spur core has been together how many years now? Artest just joined this team this year.

You have no leg to stand on in saying Popovich has done better than Adelman this year. Based on what, substitutions and play-calling, etc? Purely subjective; as I've said, look at the records and rosters, the only things that matter. Absolutely Adelman is as good as Popovich, no doubt in my mind.

First off, Adelman doesn't have many problems. If he does, Popovich has just as many, judging by their records. Second, Duncan is better than Yao Ming or anyone else on the Rockets. So yes, having Duncan would make this Rocket team even better than it already is. I'll ignore the 'culture' garbage - too subjective again.

 

I don't understand the point of this thread. We're comparing RA to Pops and Phil. Regardless of if you think RA is as good as Pops or Phil, who are you going to get that has a better record than those two. Well Phil has won 9 championships so no one compares to him.

The last I checked Phil and Pops weren't available. Phil only coaches teams with the best player in the league anyways so he ain't coming here.

 

C'mon guys!!!!!!!

Seems like most of our fans can name out many active coaches who are better than Phil Jackson,Larry Brown,Gregg Popovich

 

Greg popovich took over right after he knew he was getting TD. Phil Jackson quit after he knew he was losing shaq.

I think what RA did with kings was more impressive than what PJ and pop have done.

 

1. How did a rookie start a thread?

2. The year with the Knicks stains Larry Brown's resume.