Using that stat, Derek Fisher is the best PG in the West because the Lakers have the most wins and fewest losses in the West ....
I think production also matters.... But winning and losing is more important, otherwise the 2nd best SF in the league would clearly be Kevin Durant, when It's clearly Paul Pierce.
Haha you got me. That was probably the wrong thing to say, but what I'm getting at is the obsession over stats. In an MVP discussion, impact on the team > a difference in a couple of rebounds or points per game, triple doubles etc.
Exactly, this is one of the reasons why Yao Ming is the best center in the league. By the way WhoMikeJames, When I made the thread about all-defensive team, do you think Yao DESERVES To be one of the teams? Meaning your opinion, Or do you think his defense isn't good just yet?
Win-Loss doesn't break down how a team performs, showing their strengths and weaknesses. It doesn't tell you which players are performing well, and which ones are liabilities. It doesn't provide any answers as to how to improve the team's performance. Stop hating on people putting more effort into analyzing the game than you are.
i would take kd over paul pierce anyday.. i think if u sub in paul pierce wit any pretty dominant 2 or 3 the celts still would hav won
that's why we only care if you have great stats and you win--ala james/kobe. and the heat winning 70% of their games during his outburst. only great players can have outlandish stats and their teams still win.
Why do you say it is "clearly" when it is very debatable? Do you have any objective evidence to back up your claim?
I'd rephrase it. The only stats that matter are those that tell us how much a player is helping his team win. If I'm told that some player is averaging 20 ppg, that doesn't tell me much about whether he's helping his team win. If I'm told he's playing 34 minutes a game, he's averaging 20, and he's shooting 53% from the field and 80% from the line, then that tells me a lot more but still not everything. Stats are a way to get a top level idea about a player's value, but they won't usually tell you everything. You need to watch the games for that.
How about post-season success? And no don't me the crap where he was led by 2 other HOF's. Consider the fact that he he also led his team to the ECF with Antoine Walker and his 2nd best player. And also the fact that he LED his team to the Finals too. It wasn't all KG.
I know Antoine isn't the greatest players but people bring up the fact that Pierce got the ECF with Walker as his best player like Walker was a bum then.
So you give ZERO credit for leading his team with Antoine Walker as his 2nd best player to the ECF? Ok, then I give LeBron no credit for destroying the East in the 07 playoffs either because we knew the real playoffs happened in the West.
Edit : I know Antoine was not a great player but people bring up the fact that Pierce got to the ECF with Walker as the best player behind him like Walker was a bum back then.
Raw data is fine. The problem occurs when people make certain assumptions about what this data means. It becomes accepted as truth. For instance, much has been said about how per minute stats tell you more about how a effective a player is from game to game than per game stats. Really? Many reserve players have a role as the 'energy guy' on their team. For them, I'm sure these stats are skewed because they can not realistically maintain that level of play in a starters role. Or even an older or more injury prone player such as Ginobili can not play more minutes every game so what he does by the minute is irrelevant because his coach will not play him big minutes. His body wouldn't be able to handle it. So, from game to game what's relevant is what they do from game to game. How great of a scorer can you be on the bench?
Per-minute stats tells you how effective the player was in his time on the court. If his minutes goes up and he doesn't maintain that "level", then that's reflected in his per-minute stats going down. The "level" at which a player is playing is therefore best determined by his production per minute (or per possession, if you like).
