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[CHRONIC] Is Artest better than McGrady?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rockets34Legend, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. TMac4Life#1

    TMac4Life#1 Member

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    Well Boozer did say that they were only focusing on McGrady. They didn't care about anyone else. He said it to. Once you stop McGrady you stop their whole team. He blows by Harpring and Kirelinko and bam there is another guy right there. I'm not saying you do it but I think guys on here think its a video game when you can go off anytime. Its reality guys.
     
  2. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    TMAC is a taller and weaker version of Allan Iverson

    I mean .. Iverson got his team to the Finals
    With even 'less' talent than TMac has had

    So . . go one continue to throw the other
    Rockets under the bus
    before you realize
    Tmac is. . what he is . . .

    Rocket River
     
  3. SA05

    SA05 Member

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    Hell no, TMac is better than Artest overall, and yes look at the show Kobe put on Ron. Tmac is our go to guy down the stretch, and without him we don't have anyone we can go to in clutch time. Yao? He can't get the damn ball, or if he does he can't hold on to it, can't seal off his defender. Ron? The guy will jack up a wild off balance shot or try to charge his way over the defender to the basket out of control.

    Yes, we need TMac against the elite teams, his playmaking and clutch baskets when the games on the line. TMac rehab strong and comeback and prove all these haters who's the man on this team.
     
  4. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Take T-mac off that Orlando team

    Take A.I. off that Philly team

    The Philly team would be a tad bit better, neither talented though but one thing that Philly team had was very good defensive players and a great coach in Larry Brown.
     
  5. TMac4Life#1

    TMac4Life#1 Member

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    Your bugging. #1. McGrady doesn't drive as much as Iverson does to the basket. Or use to drive I should say. Iverson took contact every possession. McGrady mixed it up. Iverson had a way better team than McGrady did. Aaron Mckie was another scorer. Eric Snow did his thing. Matt Geiger was a low post scorer some nights. The 76ers were smart. Iverson was their offense and the role players were their defense. The finger was wagging a lot more than what it is now lol :D
     
  6. hlmbasketball

    hlmbasketball Member

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    Great post!! Sounds like you know a little bit about basketball unlike DaDakota. Keep bringing it
     
  7. hlmbasketball

    hlmbasketball Member

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    You need to be hospitalized for making such an idiotic statement!! Iverson has never been accused of being an unselfish player, he does not get other players involved. Why you think he can not fit in with Detroit, to fit in there you have to be a team player.
     
  8. hlmbasketball

    hlmbasketball Member

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    Let me explain something to you! Look at the team Kobe had when he won those championships, compared to what T-Mac has had. Kobe has had one of the top five centers of all time, along with Horry, Rick Fox, Fisher, Horace Grant, I can go on and on. This is the best team the Rockets have put together since T-Mac has been here.

    In the play-off series T-Mac has played in since he has been here, against Dallas and Utah, they both did the exact same thing. They wore T-Mac down!! I keep explaining to you T-Mac Haters, that when you have three players on one, you can wear that one player (T-Mac) down over the course of a play-off series. Utah sent AK-47, Brewer, and Harpering at T-Mac. Dallas sent Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse at T-Mac, all the while T-Mac had to guard Dirk in the 4th quarter (Juwan Howard was hurt that series).

    With that being said, Yao is good but he can't hold his position, he can't hold on to the ball, he doesn't rebound at a high clip. Do you trust him having the ball in the fourth quarter. Scola, although he is a good player, he plays below the rim. Look at how the Lakers were playing over the top of him, tip in after tip in after tip in. Battier, well enough said, and our bench is average at best. Once again, this is the best team the Rockets have had since T-Mac has been here.

    I can build the same case for D- Wade when he won the championship, that I build for Kobe. The Rockets lack athleticism and height to be a solid play-off team.
     
  9. ThaBlackKnight

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    Well, Iverson had a good, veteran team around him in 2001 in a VERY weak Eastern Conference. He had Dikembe Mutombo at the end of his prime, he had Tyrone Hill, Raja Bell, Aaron McKie, Eric Snow, Matt Gieger and George Lynch. Also you mention Larry Brown as his coach. Last I heard, he was pretty successful in many places.

    Tmac in Orlando, he had Grant Hill, but only for a handful of games. Then Mike Miller, who was decent, a very old Horace Grant Juwan Howard, Shawn Kemp, Patrick Ewing, Rod Strickland, and Darrell Armstrong, Pat Garritty, Jacque Vaughn, Andrew DeClerque, Jarrell Sasser, Pat Burke, John Amechi, a rookie Drew Gooden, Steven Hunter, and DeShaun Stevenson. He was coached by a rookie coach Doc Rivers and Johnny Davis. Nowhere near Larry Brown's level at the time.

    Out of the players Tmac had, Mike Miller and Drew Gooden were decent, but they never played with him at the same time. Tmac had MUCH less to work with. It was amazing he got them to the playoffs. They always drew a #1 or !2 seed, so that hurt their chances. Then he managed to almost single-handedly beat Detroit.

    Depth ALWAYS prevails over the individual performance. Ask Jordan, he averaged 49 ppg in 86 vs. the Celtics and got swept!

    Iverson had veterans who knew how to play the game and who could still produce. Tmac had veterans, but they could barely move by the time they got to play with him. Iverson's team was one of the top defensive teams. Orlando was horrible defensively. Mutombo cleaned up anything at the basket, Orlando had DeClerque, Shawn Kemp, and Pat Burke to block shots.

    Offensively, Eric Snow was a natural point guard who allowed Iverson to play off the ball. With Tmac, if Grant Hill wasn't playing, then he had to have the ball in his hands. Armstrong was older by the time he played with McGrady, and Jacque Vaughn is just not a good point guard.

    Tmac basically had to do everything for the Magic offensively. If his shot was off, then the Magic were screwed, because THe Magic only had one decent rebounder, Drew Gooden, and that was only for 1/2 a season. Iverson had great rebounders on his team incase there was a missed shot. They were a great rebounding team and a great defensive team. My conclusion is that overshadowed Iverson's HORRIBLE field goal % and shot selection, and allowed the 76ers to win 58 regular season games and advance to the finals in a weak Eastern Conference.

    Tmac, had a few 3 point shooters, but had minimal rebouding on his team and horrible defense. He still managed to make Pat Burke and Steven Hunter scorers with his passing and playmaking. He carried his team all game, every game, but he could only do so much.

    What did Iverson do outside of the 2001 season?? Nothing. They were young when Larry Brown first got there, but after they got Mutombo, they made their run. The next year, they got older and that was that. Once Iverson got some younger players around him, he was exposed as an overrated chucker who can't shoot. He goes to the West, and with Carmello, Kmart, and J.R. Smith, he can't get out of the first round and gets swept by the Lakers in the first round. This year, when healthy he couldn't produce or win in a real team system.

    I would say Tmac is a MUCH better player than A.I. based on what I've observed over the last 9 years. A.I. is a taller Nate Robinson with better ball handling. Tmac is one of the most unique talents the NBA has ever witnessed. He is just not durable. Thats the main knock on him.
     
  10. ThaBlackKnight

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    I responded to the wrong statement, but I do agree with this statement 100 %
     
  11. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    I think you're underrating A.I. though, even though the East was weak, what he did was pretty amazing.
     
  12. Icehouse

    Icehouse Member

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    I disagree. Why...because AI had a heart. One dude is a lock for the HOF and the other isn't.

    Like another poster mentioned, when T-Mac matches up against an elite wing he suddenly decides to become a PG instead of becoming a dominant scorer. One of the reasons he is so good at getting everyone involved is because he is so happy to defer. His role is to get others involved AND take over games. Y'all keep throwing the supporting cast under the bus and refuse to realize that if T-Mac played like a superstar in 07 then we would have won that series. Yes the supporting cast could have done more, but our "star" also could have shot above 40%. Triple teamed, yadda yadda yadda....not quality excuses. It would be different if he were playing great and the rest of the team couldn't step it up (ala Hakeem vs the Sonics). Forgive me, but I'm used to my star not playing like crap in the postseason. This goes for T-Mac and Yao.

    With that being said, I fully recognize that he hasn't had quality supporting casts around him. BUT THAT DOESN'T EXCUSE HIM FROM HIS POOR INDIVIDUAL PLAY FOR THE ROCKETS IN THE POSTSEASON. As a Rocket, he has had two poor postseason runs and 1 great one.
     
  13. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    I never threw his Houston supporting cast under the bus, I was discussing the T-mac in Orlando supporting cast against A.I.'s philly supporting cast.
     
  14. ThaBlackKnight

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    I agree, considering his size and the hits he used to take driving in, it was an accomplishment for A.I.

    Maybe I went a lil too far with the Nate Robinson comparison. He isn't that bad. What he lacks in bball IQ, he does try to lead to make up for that, so I do give A.I. credit for that.


    But, he was exposed once his veteran defensive and rebounding players left him. Plus he is not a good playmaker. He's great at breaking down the defense, but he's really only effective making plays for himself. I think thats where people have an issue with A.I. its not his heart, but his bball IQ.

    Tmac, you can say he has no heart, but the man steps his game up in the post season, with very little help. Its amazing that he's been in 3 game 7's. His teams should have only gotten that far once. It takes an entire team to choke away a 2-0 lead. He literally had to EVERYTHING for the Rockets in 05, 07, and 08 playoffs. There was very little he didn't do.

    A.I. with little help gets eliminated by sweep or 5 games in either conference. I know he has his limitations because of his size, but thats something he has to deal with just like Tmac has to deal with his injuries limiting him.
     
  15. hlmbasketball

    hlmbasketball Member

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    Only one thing Ice cube, T-Mac's numbers goes up in the post season, every post season. No one else on the team does. :confused:
     
  16. Obito

    Obito Member

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    Triple team not a quality excuse? roflosaraus

    if T-Mac had no heart why did spill his guts out in every single playoff game he's played with the roxs?

    Why did he cry in the game 7 07 presser? Why did he even give a who when the rockets were down by 8 points with 43 seconds and could of esily walked away with a solid 27 points?

    I am not a homer, neither am I one of the "only-Tmac" fans, but this bored is being completely unfair to this dude. You'd think this would be a community supporting THE Rockets as far as I know, McGrady is still a rocket.
     
  17. Icehouse

    Icehouse Member

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    T-Mac has shot like garbage in his last two playoff appeareances. he stepped it up against Dallas, but was not a superstar scorer (efficiency) in the last two playoff rounds. He wasn't the elite closer either in the one series that was winnable (Utah 07). He was actually quite the opposite.
     
  18. ThaBlackKnight

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    Name some guys that shoot great while being triple teamed...Shaq might be the only guy that can score through a triple team, thats it. Tmac isn't anything like Shaq last time I checked.
     
  19. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    True. One of the differences between Shaq and McGrady is that Shaq really did get triple-teamed whereas McGrady sees the same help defense that any other guard/sf sees when he penetrates.
     
  20. wangliyao

    wangliyao New Member

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    I think Tracy and Ron are both good!!!
     

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