this is precisely why I voted Yes, though I didn't want to vote that way flippantly. Isn't he signing the bill today? What say you NOW, fussy britches? Seriously, can't we all just get along? Do you have to just hate for hate's sake? Do you think that exaggerating the bad and ignoring the good helps your party's image? Of course, it's your party and you can cry if you want to. great article SF.
Alright, perhaps patriotism is the wrong word here. For me, I think it's pretty unpatriotic to sacrafice the welfare of the masses for political ideology. But one side doesn't have a monopoly on that either. Still....I find it highly disturbing to want to see Obama's policies fail. Wouldn't it be, "This is going to fail, but secretly I hope it works". I mean, that's how i felt personally about the Iraq war. I knew it would fail, thought it was a disaster, but geez, I didn't want to see it fail! Just the same way, I would hope republicans would at least Hope Obama succeeds in turning the economy around and making life better for everyone. But perhaps that is why I have soured on the Republican party...because whereas Democrats at least forment policy to help those who vote democratic (labor, minorities, etc...) - I see the Republican party from a fiscal perspective heavily biased to the benefit of it's wealthier constituents while not acting to the benefit of it's more modest ones...instead appealing to them on social issues and religion. Do I think Obama's budget is flawed? Heck yeah. I think the solution to the energy crisis is to revive the nuclear industry. I think he was wrong about Yukka or whatever it's spelling. He's wrong on health care - don't solve that now, wait until we are a healthy economy. I don't have health insurance right now because my cobra payment didn't go through so now i have to get a full-time job since as basically a small business man, i can't afford it. But you know what, I'm not worried about health insurance, the economy is a bigger priority. I've seen my clients cut back immensely. A tax cut isn't going to help me this year or next, nor will a tax increase affect me - because after deductions and business expenses my taxable income will be so small. But when i hear guys like republicans rooting for a worse economy because it will get obama out in four years, it will guarantee I will never vote Republican again. Are they stupid? Do they think Americans don't pay attention? Do you think small business owners want to see Obama fail? Or anyone who is worried about income? It may not be unpatriotic, but it sure is damning of them as a party to basically think that rooting for Obama's failure is going to help them. Because I'll tell you what, a lot of people are pissed off and there might be a backlash in 2010 for their "Dissent"
Perhaps Republicans are rooting for Obama to "fail" because what they fear is a short term rally that further entrenches the democrats that will lead to more long term failures. They feel it would be better to have the big spending, socialist policies go down in flames now so that the country can return to the right path. They may or may not be correct, but it doesn't mean that they are unpatriotic.
Let me give you a rather extreme analogy. Would it have been legitimate dissent for a German in 1932 to hope that Hitler fails? Consider that Germany's economy and social stability was in terrible shape following WWI and that the Nazi's policies prior to WWII did restore Germany's economy, social stability and returned Germany to its status as one of, if not the leading, industrial power in the 1930s. Now in that situation would it be legitimate to hope for failure even at the risk of continued economic and social hardship? As for if there is a backlash against their dissent that is certainly a risk that the Republicans, or any party out of power has to consider but that is a function of a democracy.
That's a great question. I think in 1932 Germany, you'd have to be crazy to be a German and hope for Hitlers failure. Had the Nazis not gone on the war rampage by invading Poland and slaughtering Jew, Germany might have become a world superpower.
That would be an understandable point, unfortunately I don't personally feel this is their sole motivation. Is it possible some feel that way, or it's part of the concern of some of the defeatists? Yes. I concede that it is, and thus not entirely unpatriotic, and could even be more on a person by person basis as to their real motivation. However, I believe just as readily, if not more so, that those who have publicly stated that they want these policies to fail are more worried about political and personal gain as they are a staunch belief that Obama's success is bad for the country, long or short term.
Please..........where have you been the last 20 plus years. when the dems are in control of congress they shut out the repubs on most things and when the repubs are in control the media and the dems are always screaming for bipartisanship....I am saying that they both pull the same tactics but the dems are little more persistant and cry a little louder.....not to mention they have the media in their hip pocket. For the record all this crying by the dems is total BS since they do not need any repub votes to pass any legislation through either house of congress. they are using classic redirection tactics to make the repubs the "bad guy" which all liberals need to exist.
I'm sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we're Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration. Hillary Rodham Clinton
It's not debate or even disagreement that poses the question. It's the fact that members of the GOP have openly said they want policies that are being put in place to stave off the worst economic situation in a century (supposedly, I admit) to fail. StupidMoniker makes a decent point, that they aren't hoping for the country to fail, but that these detractors sincerely believe that even if there's any success to the stimulus, that it will lead us down a darker road. Debatable, and valid. As I said, I'm sure that's part of it for some, but I voted yes to the "unpatriotic" question because I think it's evident that many in the GOP who are openly hoping for failure are more concerned with politics and their party being "right" than they are sure these policies are wrong. That is my opinion, I know many disagree. RocketsJudoka makes an interesting, though admittedly extreme analogy, that posits sometimes doing the right thing, even if successful, should be opposed for the greater good. I'm not sure I see the parallel between Hitler and Obama, but at least the point is made, and would lend some credit to opposition in one sense. Of course, I don't see Obama going on a war rampage or implementing genocide of any kind, and if the Nazi's hadn't gone there, I'm sure we'd see them a bit differently, and Hitler might be regarded better through Germany's revival economically in those times. As for being sick and tired of whining and who cries louder, I don't see what that has to do with the poll/question. Further, implying anyone is saying that debate and disagreement is unpatriotic, I don't think anyone here has said that, and I certainly don't believe that. Debating is one thing. Disagreement is one thing. Hoping that a plan that is being put in place to save the economy fails... has unpatriotic overtones. Not because it defers from the president's, or the democratic party's views, but because the economy does need some sort of help, and evidence of this plan's failure will most likely be revealed at the expense of people like you and me... translation, American citizens. How is hoping for that NOT unpatriotic?
I'm very political (surprised?) and know a lot of other people who are, both Republican and Democrat, and I never heard anyone, anyone, say what you just said (after correcting yourself) that you heard "from liberals I know in NYC. Friends and such." I don't know what kind of company you keep, but if I had a "friend" that said such utter nonsense and believed such unfeeling, disgusting (really, words fail me), low-life, bull****...well, I'd certainly cross them off my list of "friends." The idea that people would think such things really pisses me off.
Well, Repubs, Dems, same s***. It really isn't surprising to see the Republicans do more bashing then constructive work. When have they ever proposed an original idea post-Bush?...though perhaps that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Buffet said that in a time of war: You do not add tons of needless spending pork bills. You solve the problem. You do not blame the other party, you solve the problem. He said the army did not blame the navy for having to many ships in harbor. I think his words fall harder on the Dems. They are in control and they are adding a ton stuff to bills that just bring up conflict.
When the country faced major crisis - the Dem usually line up behind the president - Republican or Democratic. The dems mostly voted for the Iraq war if you don't recollect. That wasn't even over a crisis. THat's when they should have dissented. But for 9/11, the invasion into Afganistan was nearly unamimously supported. Never see it go the other way with Repubs do we? Even when Clinton went after Osama, Republicans accused him of trying to cover up the Monica Lewinsky business. Can you believe that? Clinton tried to bomb Osama Bin Laden, and the Republicans tried to play politics with that. So much for Patriotism.
This is off topic and you can start another thread. But yes, I have liberal friends who admited this was their feelings. I appreciate the honesty coming from them, and they admit it is in fact disgusting. It's not like they are cheering for it, but it's what a part of them wanted. I think it was far more pervasive than you think. And I think the Republicans are doing the same thing. That slice of the country that Disapproves of Obama - the way he is handling the presidency - BEFORE he even was inaugurated - you telling me they had a rational reason? Of course not, it's ridiculous to not give someone a chance. Absolutely ridiculous and irrational.
I usually don't start a thread unless I think a meteor or a comet might hit the Earth. Like I said, I can't imagine someone saying something like that. Maybe it's a Texas thing.
I disagreed with bush, but I never hope he would fail. I think they should just give all the people who Hate Obama their own country, reverse every liberal policy that's ever been enacted, and let them live under all republican only polices.I wonder would they be satisfied then?
Hmmm. Let's pretend for a moment that the topic of this thread is the war in Iraq and it's late 1993. Allow me to edit this quote a bit... "you have many Democrats who are opposing for political gain, and in fact stating they want Bush to fail" Don't kid yourself. The only thing motivating ALL politicians is political gain.
Gah, that should read 2003 above. I was going to make an even earlier point from the 90's but in editing I guess I didn't erase all of it. In any event, just wanted to point that out so it would make sense Sorry.
