Durvasa, adelman has never,ever,ever had a 2/3 as offensively inept as shane. Kersey/drexler or peja/christie were head and shoulder better than battier. Just like he phased out the same type of guys in rafer and chuck, he's going to reduce or get rid of shane. I felt hayes,rafer, and battier were going to get reduced or eliminated when adelman took over. I believe battier has more value 15-20 vs 30-35. After the rox lose this yr whenever that may be, and they make a decision about tracy's future, this team is going to change. I don't have any inside info, but tracking the history of adelman can allow one to assume so.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if that happens. But the fact remains, Adelman has had two season to phase Battier out with superior offensive options on the bench, and he has not done so. If McGrady did not get injured, I think Battier would have continued to start over Artest.
v3.0, I'm glad you're still reading my posts and staying true to form by contributing nothing to the thread. I said it before, but why don't you take yourself up on your own idea? Durvasa, I don't know if you're right, but if it is true that the Rockets just want Battier to hang out at the 3 pt line, it is a tacit admission of his impotence and futility as an offensive player. Essentially, he's a more glorified and perimter version of Chuck Hayes since even you admit that he mostly just stands or runs around the 3 pt line. I think a lot of people have gotten used to seeing medocrity. When Scola joined this team and then Landry came on strong, people were still clamoring for Chuck Hayes and now he rides the bench and is used only in certain situations. After 3 + seasons of watching Rafer, I came to the conclusion that the Rafer Alston experiment had failed and put it in my signature. I was ridiculed for it, but then Rafer was traded. Up until the point he was traded and even now there are those who still believe that Rafer was good enough to get the job done even though his body of work says otherwise. The fact remains that better players than Battier who have similar roles for their teams were acquired cheaply. The Rockets paid a high price for a player who has not made the team better. The Rockets were a good defensive team before Battier got here. Battier was part of playoff teams in Memphis that went 0-12 while he got abused by the likes of Dirk and he hasn't shown me anything to lead me to believe that he can help a team win and come up big in the post-season like an Elie, Maxwell, Horry, or Posey. Since we can't do much about him now, I would reduce his mpg in the short term. In the long run, he needs to either be traded or sent to the bench once the Rockets (hopefully next season) acquire a better overall wing player.
Durvasa, a fully healthy mcgrady and artest with von coming on, I think battier would be 20-25mins. That's about where he should play.
ahh the great james posey and terrible shane battier in the playoffs myth. i love how battier has disappeared or been terrible in the playoffs with us while scoring 10 ppg both times (basically right at his regular season avg) and shooting 46% on 3's (6% above regular season). and with kirilenko and harpring, the two guys who supposedly destroyed him, shooting 5% below their averages and each scoring 2 ppg less than the regular season. but james posey, he's stepped up big time by scoring 7.3 for miami and 6.7 ppg for boston. oh boy, huge numbers there from james. he's played less minutes but they both basically end up right at 1 point for every 4 minutes. and they both mostly shoot open 3's and other shots that were created for them. and they both play good D. neither steps up and carries you when the stars aren't cutting it (james has just played for stars that were cutting it). it's kind of like they're similar players or something. did you know the great james posey was on the first 2 memphis teams battier was on that got swept? losing the great james posey must be why they didn't win the title the next year and instead were swept once more. they were primed until his departure. i guess posey was standing around doing nothing for memphis and then became a winning, step up in the playoffs role player the next year when wade and shaq became his teammates and he put up a big 7 ppg in the playoffs. it probably wasn't wade going crazy in the ECF and finals, shaq playing well, and the other role players actually coming to the playoff party that allowed posey to settle in as the role player he is, a nice shooter who plays D and makes some hustle plays, that allowed miami to win. unfortunately, he turned back into a do nothing, loser of a role player the next year when miami was swept in the first round (hey, he's tied with shane in sweeps now!). but then luckily he went back to being a make all the big plays, step up for the team role player over the next offseason and helped carry garnett/pierce/allen to the title with his 6.7 ppg. it was the cleveland series, boston's closest (and ultimately, most important) series, a series that basically came down to the last shot, where he really took charge, scoring 3, 2, 0, and 5 in games 4, 5, 6, and 7. imagine if he had disappeared and only scored 10 or so in those games instead of 10 points combined like he did, boston might have lost that series! you would think he's probably been about the same guy each year for the past 5 years and his circumstances have just changed, but luckily for miami and boston, he turns into a stepping up in the playoffs role player in all the right years. new orleans is hoping this is one of those years.
Artest and McGrady can never play together, they don't fit.....that is a disaster or...a 20-15 record. DD
Doug Christie??? Man Bag??? Naaaa. . .cannot give ya that one Shane is better than Christie Doug I remember Doug choking in the playoffs. . . denting some rims Rocket River
What can I say, I like to amuse myself by toying with inept posters that say the same thing over and over again yet are oblivious to it...such as you. I usually keep it simple for those people and repeat the same things just like them. Contributing nothing to this thread is a bonus anyways. At least I add humor to your usual regurgitated long winded drivels. However, you can always redeem yourself and your transparent empty posts by posting that Excel chart of Battier. Otherwise, keep driveling on. BTW, you didn't answer the Rudy Gay question of what you think he'll do in the playoffs this year. Even though it was a trick question, I would hope you would have figured it out by now. Hint: look at the NBA standings.
Marsarinian, if you ignore posts by me, what are you doing in this thread responding directly to one of my posts? RV6, I'll take your last comment as a tacit admission of defeat. It's okay you and Battier both know a lot about that. One last point, durvasa, if T-Mac didn't get injured you can easily argue that Battier's mins would get reduced and he might've ended up being relegated to the bench. All things considered, I'm pretty sure he will either be traded next year or will move to the bench with a significant reduction in mins. I'd say the latter is more likely. Most people will dismiss this as "Battier hate," but this is probably a better description of Shane than the one I used in calling him a glorified and perimeter version of Chuck Hayes although you can apply both to Battier pretty easily. Part of the Battier-Posey debate is about cost as well. You probably think it's irrelevant, but there are many people including myself who think that you don't trade a lottery pick for glue. Posey was acquired either as a free agent or in a minor trade by his last 3 teams. We can talk about other role players who were acquired cheaply, Elie, Maxwell, Ben Wallace, and look at how they stepped up when their teams needed them to in the playoffs. I don't think Battier has made any big plays in his entire post-season career. Another part of this debate is about current production. Battier is the lowest scoring player in the NBA among those who regularly start and play over 30 mpg. Posey, who was acquired through free agency, comes off the bench for NO, plays less mins than Shane, makes less money than Battier, and provides more tangible production and gives them the same intangibles. Posey has also shown the ability to step up in the playoffs while Battier has not. It is funny that those who support Battier try and back everyone into a rhetorical corner with their circular arguments. If he has a good tangible game, they are quick to point to the same box score they criticize when people apply it to Shane on a regular basis. On the other hand, if he doesn't have a good tangible game, they are quick to say that you can't measure his contributions that way. This way Battier can't have a bad game no matter what. It's a win-win for them.
battier is a unique player and has unique impact on the game. like i said, for some it might be better to watch one game with their eyes only on battier when he's on the court. but if that still doesn't change their views, then nothing will. shane is not an allstar. but he's much closer to an allstar than he is to a scrub which is the op tries to depict him to be.
I expect you to understand the problem with 2 guys who need the ball in their hands and the issues that causes. Don't you think it is funny that Artest has exploded now that Tmac is out? He doesn't have to defer to 2 guys anymore, just one....and he is a much better 3pt shooter than Tmac...he fits better with Yao than Tracy does. Hey no worries, you were wrong about Scola....too. DD
Nobody has brought up Rudy Gay in this thread other than you. If you think so little of this thread, why do you post in it? If you don't think it adds anything new, I'm going to assume that you had already known that Battier is the lowest scoring player in the NBA among those who regularly start and play over 30 mpg. Why didn't you tell the rest of us?
I propose The Battier Challenge For those who maintain that Battier is an offensive liability, here is the assignment: Count up the number of offensive possessions in which we don't score with Battier on the floor, and then for each those possessions assign Battier some percentage of the blame. If there's something Battier isn't doing right on a 0-point possession like missing a wide open shot, not taking advantage of an opening in the defense by making a sharp basket cut or driving it in, breaking up the flow of the offense by hesitating on the shot/pass, etc. then take that into account. For those who think Battier, despite the low shooting percentage and shot attempts, is an asset to the offense, here's your assignment: Count up the number of offensive possessions in which we score with Battier on the floor. In each of those possessions, give Battier some percentage of the credit. E.g. If he makes a good post entry pass to Yao, who then scores ... maybe you give Yao 80% of the credit and Battier 15%, and the rest of the players share the 5%. Or if Battier sets a very good post screen in the lane for Yao which frees him up for a easy score right at the basket, maybe Battier gets 10% of the credit, Yao gets 70%, and whoever made the pass into him gets 15%. If Battier hits an open jumper off a double team drawn by Yao, then maybe Yao gets 50% credit, Battier gets 40%, and the rest who swing the ball around share the remaining 10%. You assign the credit as you see fit, but briefly explain what happened. At the end, we can have a better discussion on whether Battier is more of a liability or a contributor based on the results.
Or just watch the games and see how effective Shane is or isn't by yourself. Watch how often he helps his teamates, or moves the ball to the open shooter or repost to Yao. Watch how often on D he has a hand right in the face of the opposing team's best wing player. Battier is part of the solution, not part of the problem....the fans complaining about Battier are part of the problem... DD
