well you're saying he's valuable and those coaches see that. what has he done for those guys? i'm just sayin...
Shane has a history of shooting better, so we are willing to give him time to work it out. And.....Shane does not take NEARLY as many shots as Rafer, why is that so difficult to understand? DD
at least rafer does other things on offense and has the guts to take some shots. you see how more valuable rafer was last yr when he was out in the playoffs v. utah? plus, not wanting to take open shots and passing those up are just as bad. if you play basketball, you know what i mean.
He takes ONLY open shots, that is the difference. Rafer took TOO many shots, open, covered, too many, which takes shots away from more efficient players. Shane KNOWS his role, he takes opportunisitc baskets, nothing more, sort of like Mario Elie did for the old Rockets. Shane's job is to defend, play his role and hit open shots...that stretch the defense. He does an EXCELLENT job out there, his shot has been off this year due to ankle surgery, and overextending himself in rehab, but he is rounding into form. Shane Battier is NOT a problem for this team.....never has been, never will be. DD
Season isn't over. One thing you can't accuse Adlemen of is being stubborn. He makes adjustments as he see's fit. If Wafer is clearly outplaying Battier, RA will play him Wafer. Right now, Wafer makes a lot of mistakes on offense and defense. He's great for changing the pace of the game but I definately wouldn't call Wafer ...consistent. All that said, NBA players tend to play at their averages. I expect Battier to continue to improve this season. If he doesn't, I agree his minutes should drop.
Who has Battier kicked lately? personally rather than have him stand around I would like to see him cut across the paint, run into Yao's 1st or 2nd defender and block him like an offensive lineman would do. The Jazz cut across the paint sometimes 2 at a time and constantly run into people and create confusion and opportunities for cutting and passing and easy buckets. let's stop the standing around. Lowry has been doing great driving and creating contact. Alston avoided contact like the plague. Battier knows how to take contact. There was a reason Sloan had Harpring body slam Lowry twice in one game. Jerry understands how dangerous someone like Lowry is.
\ Agreed, wanna beat the Jazz? Attack the rim, they are slower than most teams and use physicality to make up for it. Attack, attack, attack....get them in foul trouble but never stop. That is how you beat the Jazz. DD
lol I really don't want to because I'm not making a claim about Battier's claim. I'm just saying the stats you came up with (nothing wrong with them) do not necessarily yield the conclusion you came to. If you want to make the claim, feel free to do the research. Personally, I feel that Battier should be more efficient on offense. I have always thought that he should be more efficient on offense (50% shooting from field, around 40% from 3). I don't necessarily care about the ppg because I trust that if there is a good shot, he will take it. I don't know if he's boggind down the team's offense though. For all I know, he's creating spacing by standing at the 3-pt line and our other 4 players are more efficient because of it. What I don't do is claim to have statistics to prove anything. In case you are interested in doing it, feel free to compare his +/- to last year's and also keeping in mind the effect of swapping T-Mac/Alston/Brooks/Head with Artest/Brooks/Lowry/Wafer. Good luck with that.
what does him shooting 48% have to do with anything I said? Wow, i can't believe you can't answer that question yourself. What's 1 of 4? 25% What's 25 of 100? 25% See any significant difference there?
I thought Kwame was going to list all of Shane's activities throughout the game in Excel form so we the forum can follow along with him. Still waiting for that Excel chart, Kwame.
You're jumping all over the place man. If you want to compare the shootign % and why people complain about one and not the other then fine. But that's where the comparison should end. Now you're comparing what a point guard does and that a swingman does. you can't just jump around like that, it makes no sense, it helps your argument, which is why you're doing it, but it's not credible. If you really want to go in that direction, why does skip keep getting traded, but Battier has stuck with two team, both who are/were reluctant to trade him?
It's not always about offense. It's about defense (needing a lockdown guy), clutch shots, and intangibles. For example, using your logic, the Rockets should have never have used Mario Elie.
My god, get over it. Now that he is gone you act like he was one of the greatest PGs ever. The guys to take some shots? Last I checked, Lowry and Brooks don't have a problem taking, and making, open shots.
Because Rafer is a PG and has the ball 95% of the time. Shane is a SF, and defensive specialist and isn't counted on to be a scoring threat or to set up the offense. Also, Rafer takes almost twice as many shots per game as Shane (6 per game for Shane, 10 per game for Rafer). He even takes more 3s per game then Shane (Rafer 5 per game, Shane 3 per game). So Rafer's shooting percentage has more of an impact on his team then Shane's.
The Rockets with Van Gundy in '07 were ABOVE average offensively? The team that had only 4 players score in a playoff game? I like Battier, I dont hate him. I quoted almost EXACTLY what you said in another thread how getting back on defense isnt a box score stat and how thats to be appreciated. But I remember a Battier a long time ago that wasnt scared of offense is what I'm saying. Everyone sees it, he's a reluctant scorer and people wish he were more selfish. I could simply leave it at that. Battier is taking the Ben Wallace route when he's already showed he's 3 times the scorer. Okay here it is: Battier's approach is do the things other players dont do. To some fans that also means if the other players arent scoring worth a darn, Battier does what the other players arent doing and TRIES to score a little more. I saw Battier being guarded by Leandro Barbosa in the paint late in the game - thats a size MISMATCH. Battier didnt demand the ball and after 2 seconds trotted back out the the perimeter. Thats BAD offensive basketball. As a fan I dont care if playing a 5'-5" 5 guy at center that scores 1 point a game helps the team win, I'll keep sending him out there. I think whats annoying is making it like Battier is without criticism. Its like as long as Battier has his defense, screw his offense. Thats just not how it goes though. Kwame is saying Battier's been trash all along and we gave up too much. I could care less what MANAGEMENT thought was a good deal for what we gave up. If the Rockets gave up a #1 pick for Luke Walton, I'm not gonna expect Luke Walton to be like Lebron. I'm saying Battier could perform better on offense. Thats PLENTLY fair.
my problem isn't that. my problem is he consistently plays 35+ minutes THIS YEAR. and THIS YEAR, he's not an all-nba defender. our defense isn't top notch like it once was. he's not making wide WIDE open shots. and he hasn't shown signs of any improvements. i'm thinking for the playoffs. watching that utah game tells me shane is still going to get 38+ minutes when the playoffs rolls around. and that SCARES me. again, the reason we haven't advanced in the playoffs the past few years is b/c we have too many guys who were not counted to be "scoring threats." and we ended up struggling to score despite great defense. we have much more talent this year. but those guys are still young and inexperienced. shane is a veteran. he will have to step up some time sooner or later as teams amp up the pressure and study this team like a book over a 7-game series.
and why do people think battier's critics are haters? we actually LIKE the guy. and ONCE AGAIN, i never said to bench him or don't play him at all. just reduce his minutes. is that so much to ask? he's just not good this year, that's all. all of the battier's criticisms have been very fair. it's not like they're calling him names and just straight up hating the guy.
Ah v3.0, I was wondering when you would stop by and add nothing to this thread. I never said I was going to do that so please don't put words in my mouth. Since you're the one that originally brough it up, I suggest you take that idea up yourself. I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think Elie played over 30 mpg and I don't think he ever averaged 6.5 ppg either - at least not during the championship years. Also, we got Elie for nothing while a lottery pick was given up for Battier. I'm not asking Battier to turn into a scoring machine, but 6.5 ppg @ over 30 mpg is not going to get it done in the playoffs. That's why I suggested a reduction in his mins as a short term solution or maybe have him come off the bench. I'm just worried about his negative impact in the playoffs if he continues to play like this. His history in the post-season indicates that he will, which isn't good for the Rockets. Since you admitted you love Battier, I question your objectivity as a poster. Again, are you saying it's too much to ask a guy who starts and plays over 30 mpg to avg more than 6 points even though he's the only player in the NBA that can make that claim? Do you think this is enough production to get the job done in the post-season? What if somebody has an off game or is just playing poorly? Where are those points going to come from? When you answer keep in mind Battier's post-season career. Some general questions and comments to those defending Battier in this thread: The Rockets were a good defensive team before he got here. Moreover, players like Kobe have actually increased their ppg average against the Rockets since Battier has been here guarding him. He's not the only one who can stick his hand in somebody's face. Let's hypothetically assume that Battier denies the other team a few baskets per game, does it make up for his impotence and lack of production on the offensive end? Since many of you are hyping up his "intangibles," what are they and how do we, in your view, measure somebody like Battier? Please show me what you see.
No, I want you to do it so I (along with the rest of the bbs) can follow what you are exactly talking about. It shouldn't be hard since you say Battier doesn't do much. What's the hesitation here? You should be all over this. This thread was originally nothing anyways, just more regurgitated posts of yours saying the same thing. So me adding "nothing" isn't going to hurt this thread one bit.
