Charley Rosen has a pretty interesting article on Fox sports' website comparing the two great big men. I don't always agree with the guy, but this article is pretty straight up. Check it out and let the debate begin. Rosen on Dream and Duncan Scroll down towards the bottom to find the piece. Its under the Vox Populi header. I can see what he's saying for the most part. He doesn't really mention Dream's hands leading to tons of steals though. I also have some dispute on Duncan having better footwork.
What was also funny is that the person who wrote him asking about the two calls them "four-and-a-halfs." Doesn't outplaying your peers in the age of the center qualify you as a 5?
I was surprised the didn't mention Hakeem being in the top 10 in steals every year....surpassing most guards. And the better footwork raised my eyebrows...maybe he meant to say Hakeem and got it backwards? Hakeem has the best footwork in the game.
"Whereas the former had well-defined musculature, the latter was rounder, less well-muscled, and had a slightly broader butt." Slightly disturbing. "Duncan, though, is more fundamentally sound — .." I agree. "...meaning that his footwork is superior and that he has a more expanded repertoire of moves in the low post." Disagree. The only one I can think of who matched Hakeem in terms of footwork and repertoire of moves in low post was Kevin McHale. "Duncan's hands are somewhat stronger." Not sure how he can come to this conclusion. Again, a little disturbing. Hakeem did have cat quick like hands though. He is the only big man in Top 10 All-time in Steals. Overall, good assessment. He actually thought about it instead of spewing crap. PS. Dont forget to vote for who is better poll on the right!
That's a pretty good breakdown, in my opinion. When Duncan retires, he'll be regarded as a top 15 player of all time, just like Olajuwon. Interesting comparison. I'm not sure if Duncan (or any big man, for that matter) ever played at the level that Olajuwon reached in the 1995 playoffs, however.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BuP1pJYsEPc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BuP1pJYsEPc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> for the lazy http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9285040/Howard's-quickness-trumps-Shaq's-power-in-big-battle Vox Populi If you have a question or comment for Charley Rosen, submit it below and Charley may just respond. It is obvious that your promotion of fundamentals and poise as being two essentials of a basketball paragon makes Hakeem Olajuwon and Tim Duncan among your favorite big men. Just to delight us young viewers who never had the opportunity to relish the Dream's play but are familiar with Duncan, could you compare these two four-and-a-halfs? Thank you. — Srinivasan R, New Delhi, India It would be my pleasure to do so. They were of comparable stature — Olajuwon at 7-0, 255, and TD at 7-0, 260 — but their body types were different. Whereas the former had well-defined musculature, the latter was rounder, less well-muscled, and had a slightly broader butt. This anatomic feature actually helps Duncan establish and maintain better pivotal position that Olajuwon. Because TD is more of a low-post player, he's also able to induce more fouls. Hakeem was much quicker and faster, which gave him greater range on defense (making him a better shot-blocker) and enabled him to actively participate in the Rockets' running game. Also give Olajuwon a significant edge in pure athleticism. Duncan, though, is more fundamentally sound — meaning that his footwork is superior and that he has a more expanded repertoire of moves in the low post. Plus, TD is a more accurate passer and sets more solid screens. Olajuwon was a slightly better mid-range shooter, with his unstoppable turnaround-fadeaway jumpers being much more reliable than Duncan's bank jobs. And Olajuwon was more efficient at the stripe as well. Although they each managed to drop a trey from time to time, their taking 3-point shots was usually an act of either folly or desperation. Olajuwon was quicker off his feet, but Duncan's hands are somewhat stronger — plus TD can use his butt to maneuver himself into optimum rebounding position — so Duncan gets the slightest of nods in the rebounding department. Because Olajuwon faced up more, and resorted to vastly more shake-and-bake moves, he accumulated more turnovers than does Duncan. Both were fierce, team-oriented competitors, and all-around nice guys. And both were winners. Who was the superior player? If I had a gun at my head, I'd choose Olajuwon because of his athleticism.
Rosen was talking about fundamental soundness. Olajuwon's footwork was beautiful to watch, but let's be honest -- a lot of it was traveling.
I think some of Rosen's points are flat out wrong (Duncan a better rebounder?) but the bottom line is all that counts. He chose Dream as I think most people would although someone who prefers Duncan has plenty to back up that opinion. In the end, Duncan's free throw shooting and lack of athleticism put him a notch below the Dream. Plus, Dream going bananas and destroying every player in the league for 3-4 years puts him ahead of almost everyone who ever played in the paint. Duncan is the model of consistency but Dream went to a level that made him a legend.
Why is that flat out wrong? Hakeem had some really great rebounding years in the late 80s, but career-wise or even looking just the first 11 years of their respective careers Duncan's rebounding looks more consistent to me by the numbers. For instance, Olajuwon had 5 years (4 times in the playoffs) in which his Reb-R (according to basketball-reference.com) was higher than 18.0. Duncan has done that 8 time already (6 times in the playoffs), and he's going on his 9th this year. I think when Rosen makes his comparison, perhaps he has Olajuwon's later years more freshly in his mind. From the championship years and onward, Olajuwon was no longer a great rebounder.
Yeah, I was a confused by that too. I don't know if any big man had better footwork than Hakeem in the history of the game. If I overstate it a bit, I just mean I have never heard anyone rave about Duncan's footwork.
don't forget 86 dream went to the finals <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zMrcBdXU9Nw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zMrcBdXU9Nw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Excellent point about Hakeem in 95. I have never thought Duncan's game changed that much from the regular season to the playoffs--and that is not a shot at him--Duncan is always Duncan. Perhaps, Hakeem never reached Duncan's consistency, but only the exceptional few have ever reached the stratosphere Hakeem reach in 95. Duncan, to my knowledge, never has.
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might as well say lets be honest, tim duncan went over the back for more rebounds than anybody ever (or shaq wasn't as good as player X in the post because practically everything he did was an offensive foul). what happened, happened. giving duncan the footwork advantage would be like giving hakeem the 17 foot bank shot advantage. and how many of his moves actually were traveling and didn't just look like traveling? it's not like hakeem was jordan to the refs and just did whatever he wanted. and really, at the end of the day, i just can't see hakeem and duncan going into a playoff series against each other and duncan winning the individual matchup. duncan has shown that long, athletic guys bother him and i can't see him being quick enough to stay with hakeem, 1985 or 1995 version (1995 playoff hakeem would literally destroy duncan on offense as i don't see anyway he could affect his shot more than the quicker robinson or the freakishly big and strong shaq). being completely honest with myself, i've never seen how i could think of duncan as being as good as hakeem. if the spurs could do it all over against starting in '97 and you told them everything, every roster would be exactly the same except they could replace duncan with hakeem (both as rookies), i think they take hakeem. if you tell the 1984 rockets the same thing, i think they take hakeem.
85-86 Dream.. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/k6xJBnNIfiQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/k6xJBnNIfiQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
I will always be a Hakeem backer, but when Duncan finally retires his resume will have more then Hakeem when talking about the greatest players of all time. So how do you rate individual awards and accolades, NBA titles, stats, and team success when rating and listing all the NBA players and determining that great list? I'm not talking about categorized position list since a bunch of people will argue Hakeem and Tim playing different positions, I'm talking about that who's the greatest list that gets talked about over a beer and on the radio. So both Hakeem and Tim are top 15 players of all time, who will be above the other? Anybody wants to take a stab at their top 20 players of all time in sequential order? (1 being the best in the game)
Thanks for being johnny on the spot with the vids Tinman. I love watching those old videos of Hakeem outrunning guards and crossing over people like he's running the point. By far the best foot work for a center or forward. I remember that block on strickland like it was yesterday, I also like the one where he gets KJ from behind. Damn, I miss seeing that guy play. He carried the team for years, he didnt have a parker or ginobli type player until we got clyde and he dominated both ends of the court.
