Another option at #5?

You seem to be confusing me, HP, with someone who is saying this Nickoloz Tskitishvili as someone who is going to be a superstar. I did not say that. I said I thought he would have good footwork as a result of the ballet. Just because you have a bad opinion of ballet, you are going to read things into my post? Seriously, I don't buy into the hype, and I like to think I am not buying into the hype of this Euro player here. But based on what I saw of Ming in those short videos, I don't really think he is going to be a dominant center. By the way, you say that you doubt this player has the footwork of Kenny Thomas or Hakeem. I agree...but keep in mind that neither KT nor Dream had the footwork that they have (maybe in Dream's case I should say HAD) now when they came into the league. Players develop, and I think the ballet experience is merely indicative of this player developing excellent footwork, which is great for a C. If we get a top 3 pick, of course don't take this guy. That would be moronic (probably...remember Dirk, remember Dirk...ouch bite my tongue).

By the way, ballet is not just pirouettes. It has PLENTY to do with footwork. Hell, the entire "sport" is based around looking graceful. You can't look graceful if you don't have good footwork. Speaking of which, why would you doubt that Jordan, Hakeem or Barkley could dance? Do you have any good reason for saying that except that they are tall?

 

He sounds like he may not be there much past #5.

This article says he'll likely be a 4, but his combo off speed, shot, passing skills, etc. makes me wonder if he'll be a 3...I don't think I'd mind he and EG manning the forward slots for years.

hp-Ming is still the ideal. But we need those ping pong balls to give us a break if we want to be able to get him IMO. This
(T)Skitish fellow sounds like he has some game, enough to be drafted #5.

Also, those quotes sound like they could be talking about Pau Pau Gasol.

 

Again, Gasol's willingness to bang with the puny frame he has is what makes him Gasol. A slow 3? Not what we need AT ALL.

 

11 days until we know if we have ming or not... basically anyway.

f5f5f5f5

 

He sounds interesting. not top 3 interesting, but worth a serious look at #5.

The ballet background is impressive. The amount of training they do is on par with olympic gymnasts, as is there co-ordination (for the top ballet dancers that is). Sculptured, extremely strong bodies. He would have an amazing work ethic from regimented training from a young age. The soviet ballet dancers are amazing "performers" at the top of their field.

Ballet is not neccessarily the "wussy" activity we men think it is (tho i would never be caught dead in a leotard, or what ever they call them).

 

I don't think you will find someone on this board who knows more about the Houston Ballet than I. I was a season ticket holder in that too. My mom taught Ballet. I love Ballet.

First, there is nothing in this article that says he was a good ballet student, or any amount of material worthy of performing professionally...just that he took lessons...right?

A pirouette has little to do with foot work versus form and leaping ability from a stand still. It is really just an exercise first and foremost. Hell, I took lessons at the Houston Ballet Academy. I know what a pirouette is. Tennis taught me more footwork transferable to basketball than ballet.

You are reading way to much into this classically trained Ballet hype to believe that that is better than being classically trained in basketball since age 6 like Ming. Basketball has a much footwork as any sport....except tennis, in my opinion. Soccer is different. The footwork of kicking doesn't translate at all to basketball, and the rest of the footwork is really no different than any other version of football. Besides Hakeem was a goalie.

tennis and basketball have the most lateral movement and spin moves. But more importantly, what sport teaches how to dribble a ball while doing spins? None other than basketball. That is why it is so unique. Like I say, given a choice, I'd rather have Ming with two professional basketball parents teaching him the sport since an early age than a Ming being converted from Ballet at age 15 or whatever. Why are you making a big deal out of someone who didn't start playing basketball until 15, in a way that ballet makes him better for it...that is all HYPE!!

This 19yr old kid could be a superstar, but he only plays 10mpg on his team for christsakes. 5 more inches from a classically trained basketball player with a deadly jumper and more polished and proven passing skills is a better bet.

Read the nbadraft.net reviews from Europe on this kid. It will raise questions as much as any questions you have of Ming, and more.

 

heypartner-

That quote says he was a pretty good dancer.

If he is afraid of contact, at least we'd get to call him a ballerina.

The whole ballet thing is just part of the hype to sort of show his athleticism. Sort of like Eddy Curry, the gymnast and Tim Duncan, the swimmer.

so, CrisP...let's wait till we get the #1 pick before dismissing everyone that isn't Yao-za. If we get the #1 pick, I think Clutch should let us make a thread about every prospect in the Rockets Forum, and talk about how he is not Yao Ming.

 

You're right about that he's probably not going to be a five. I would be excited to see him play with the Rockets at the three, instead of Odom or Lewis. He's tall, European, and has a shot.

 

From the description on nbadraft.net he sounds like a potential 4 more than a 3.But the article mentioned by aelliott said that he has good handles and the ability of take the ball to the hole,which is important for a 3 or a 2.
However intensity,desire and toughness can only be gauged by seeing him in game situations over a repeated period.He is young and inexperienced partly because of his thin frame and has gotten very few minutes despite his talent,the other thing that is not clear to me is if he can play defense against SF's or not.
I would certainly take a chance at 15 with him although I doubt if he will be there.
I would compare his skill level to Woods and Butler,before thinking about taking him with the 5th pick.

 

Once again, you are mistaking me for someone WHO IS MAKING A BIG DEAL, HP. I didn't say he would be a superstar. He could be good, he might be crap, I was making an observation based on what my opinion is of ballet. I felt (and still feel) that it would be very helpful in teaching good footwork for a basketball player, despite tennis perhaps being a better teacher. You addressed the ballet portion. Thank you. But quit making it look like I am calling for the Rockets to draft this guy at any cost by "buying into the hype."

 

The Soviet Union didn't allow people to JUST take lessons. If the government wanted you to excel at something than you had to do it all out. They only forced those with the talent and ability to do it.

I believe the author of the article simply used the pirouette as an example. If a 7 footer has a strong background in ballet, you want to tell me that's not benficial???? That's nuts. A 7-footer with the stamina and agility that a high level of ballet requires is really quite amazing.

I think everyone would prefer to have Ming but this isn't an arguement on who to take 1st. This is if we should take this Georgian kid over Butler. I'm intrigued.

Yes he's a kid. How many minutes do 18 year old kids get in the NBA? And again you go with the Ming analogy. He isn't being comapred to Ming. But if you're dead set with that analogy, how do you know Ming is the better passer and jump shooter???? The article clearly states that <i>"he thinks pass first, refusing to play the 'me first one-on-one game'"</i>. I've personally never seen either play. Have you seen Tskitishvili play??? I can't make the conclusion if Tskiti is going to be a bust after a couple of reads on him. Maybe you have special powers that you haven't shared with us or did you spend some time in Tblisi, Georgia watching this kid bumble around the stage trying to do ballet??? I'll leave the decision on whether he's good enough for the 5th pick up to the <i>scouts</i>. You know the kind of people that actually see these prospects play and don't rely on a couple of journalists?

No doubt there are questions but why are you discarding him after reading this article above and his profile on nbadraft.net? It's insane to evaluate a player on so little information. But alas, I must defer to HP, aka Billy Elliot, just cause you have so many damn posts and took a ballet lesson or two along the way

 

heypartner,
I played soccer from the time I was five until senior year of HS. I'm not to sure on how much you played yourself, but I didn't pick up basketball until age fifteen. Above all, my footwork was allowed me to beat anyone. I could post up smaller players and make a move past bigger players. Fundamentals of soccer: playing with your back to the defender and facing the defender. I know nothing of ballet, but don't tell me that soccer doesn't teach footwork. As a soccer player, "I do believe you're talking out of your a$$."

 

Heypartner, I don't know what you have against soccer players, but I have to agree with don. Soccer players are trained to win position with their feet. These soccer skills can be used effectively to box out, post-up, etc.

 

No one on this board, I promise, has played more soccer than me. First of all, it depends on what position you play. Second of all, it would barely make any difference to basketball footwork. I play basketball, and I have great footwork. But only after a trainer helped me get it right. Trust me, I couldn't have learned any of that in the 11 years I played soccer, and doubt it would come up anymore.


Maybe if you weer a Goalkeeper in 5-a-side. That would be your best bet at improving footwork.

 

I said nothing derogatory of soccer players. I said tThe best way to learn footwork for basketball is to PLAY basketball. That's is my point, and Sane (an 11yr soccer player) concurs. Sorry I didn't say that every basketball player should put down his ball and play soccer for a year to learn footwork.

Hell, maybe we should include hacky-sack. And maybe ultimate frisbee teaches zones and man-to-man defense the best.

Greg M: The Soviet Union broke up way before he took lessons, and you are merely referring to the kids that got sent to the big ballet companies. You think they just test these kids and ship them out. No, they have sports centers like the YMCA, where they get to play things. You can keep doing ballet just like hockey. Soviet Union was not devoid of athletic activities for the masses... He probably went to a commercialized dancing center just like in the states. I don't presume he was in the Corp de Ballet for a big Ballet Company. If so, I'd expect them to mention that in the article, because that is a HUGE story! Anyhow, ballet is beneficial, just like tap dancing, soccer or tennis. Just not as much as Ming training with professionally basketball parents.

What is so hard for you guys to grasp. I'm not bashing Soccer or Ballet. I am saying it merely says someone is coordinated with their legs/feet. Saying anything more it all HYPE compared to the classical basketball training that Ming got. Practicing footwork while dribbling or with a pivot foot anchored to the ground is much more important.

You don't need to argue with me about the benefits of building coordination...sheesh.

besides, tennis is better for basketball footwork...

Do you really have such a hard time understanding someone's point? I didn't like ravenlunatic assuming I hated ballet. That is the only reason I brought up my ballet background, not to impress people, but to say...hey raven...I love ballet more than anyone on this board. Just like now what's up with people saying I hate soccer now.

That's right it is insane to evaluate him. That is my point. I like what I read. But the Ballet part is just silly HYPE. The nbadraft.net articles from other European writers are more objective, imo. And the "HP has so many damn post" is a stupid comment, and you know it.

 

HP, I saw Chad on ESPNews yesterday afternoon who saw the guy. Nikko was the subject of the segment once Chad got back from Europe. I tend to believe Chad if he says he saw him and will not just dismiss it as hype.

 

Can we put this to rest, then get back on topic?

I'll put down DearRock as someone who is having trouble following this thread. Guys, I was talking to Raven Lunatic anyhow. Let's see, I insulted all soccer fans; someone said I hate ballet; Greg M still thinks I'm insulting ballet dancers; DearRock thinks I'm insulting Chad ...Quit butting in a conversation between Raven and I if you can't follow it. Is this how threads get derailed.

I said the Ballet thing is HYPE. Not his abilities. Please reread what I said.

Raven said "I don't recall hearing anyone saying that Ming was pirouetting when he was bored. Seven footers that can do perouettes have good footwork, and that makes my eyes light up to read. "

While he was just poking fun at me: I thought that was saying Ming had less of a footwork background than the ballet student, how it means he must be less coordinated in basketball. To me, that is insulting the classical basketball upbringing of players who had pro parents like Ming, Kobe, Parker, etc. I said the 19yr old could be a superstar if you just read my post. Can we get off this pirouette thing now...it's stupid?

<b>Back to Topic of Evaluating our #5</b>

Kirilenko was drafted in 1999, but was a rookie this year. Can we wait like that? Can we really compare him to Caron Butler, much less Pau Gasol when you find out that he only plays 10 minutes on his team (albeit a powerhouse team), and sat for the playoffs. Pau was the goto guy in the playoffs last year.

read this:

First, does anyone play defense in Europe. 74% shooting 2ptrs??? Why only 7 ppg then? Then in the big leagues he shoots 60%, but only 1.5 ppg. I guess he scores 2ptrs only on easy shots like Cato, I assume, probably fast break dunks. Also, why hardly any assists if he's supposed to be so fundamentally sound and a great passer? Again, that sounds like potential to me.

Wasn't Dirk much more experience as well?

I get all google eyed reading stuff like aelliott's article as much as anyone. Then I try to read more, and watch the guy. It just seems to me the success of Dirk and Pau now has us looking for even younger players, like how the success of Garnett and Kobe opened the door to Kwama Brown being taking way too high. Kirilenko was not ready when drafted. We might be facing that with this kid. <i>With Pau and Dirk it was more about are you willing to risk waiting for him to stop being the goto man in Europe, and to be one her. With Tsika, it is more about are you willing to risk selecting someone based on potential alone.</i>

<b>Trade Down if you Like Him</b>

#5 sounds like a reach to me considering who else is available, and how you might be able to trade the #5 for an Odom anyhow. Hell, Dallas essentially traded down from the #5 to get Dirk. And be prepared for him to just be a 3-pt shooter and fastbreak runner at first.

 

HP, I was really not trying to butt in. I just wanted folks to know that Chad was on yesterday which I do not believe had been passed on yet. The fact that Chad was on, I thought, would help folks, not you, hesitate to label something as hype. Afterall, last week Nikko was not really on the horizon.

You would forgive me if I have not been able to fully grasp the ins and outs of your elongated two-party discussion. Way too long!

 

heypee hates rugbee.