Sounds like Golden State or the Clippers to me... What does BUILD IT THE RIGHT WAY mean? Does it mean sucking so bad that you get lucky to get the number one pick and get a Lebron, Howard, or Duncan? Because that is what happens......reality is not pretty in rebuilding. Give Yao the max...YES....absolutely 100 times YES...6 years...... Max, I thought you would be able to understand the overall point more than anyone. Please read again, I am saying Yao creates the same opportunities for his teamates as Duncan does.... DD
That's a guard-oriented team. You can't afford to surround Yao with guys like that because you're paying Yao elite player money.
Tell that to San Antonio and Manu and Parker and Mason and..........you can build a good team, you just need some of your younger guards to step up at the right time..... DD
It IS about the great individual players in the NBA, DaDa. But for a just a couple of exceptions, it always has been. Memorable shots are great....but Hakeem absolutely carried those teams. There is no way those teams are any where near as close without him. He took over games when we needed him to most. Other players could have stepped up to hit those shots....very few others could have ever got you in a position to have those shots matter.
It's more than creating opportunities...at some point, championship teams have to ride on the back of a great player....far more often than not. And we don't have that sort of player.
Max, no it is not about great players, it is about trust and teamwork. Great players can make it EASIER. Hakeem never won ANYTHING until he started trusting his TEAMATES to take big shots. Remember Dream going nuts for nearly 50 in a loss to the Sonics in the playoffs? He was amazing, but he could not get it done by himself. As soon as he started passing in crucial situations, the team took off.....Yao can not do what Dream did, but he does create the same opportunities. DD
What do you mean by "closing fast"? The Yao/T-Mac era is dead. It needs to be buried out back before it starts to stink up the place. After his miserable showing this season T-Mac's gone, for sure. His expiring contract will make him eminently tradable in 2009/2010. That's $23 million the Rockets will have to play with.
Good thread DD and it seems like you cliff noted( a jesse jackson made up word ) my plan from last week. I don't think Yao is a great player, but he's good, so they have to put a lot of good players around him. Next year, they need Battier on the bench hayes off the roster and scola or landry gone. You brought Wafer, kobe loved the guy in La, but he blew his knee out. In denver, they had dynamic scorers already. By your logic, Azubuike should be a scrub and he's not. Some guys catch on later. I pushed for this move this summer while others were still buying the fools gold from the win streak last year. Its not about 1st rd or 2nd rd, its about the title. I never thought this team when healthy could be La and that King Kong in the west. Until you see real evidence of beating a young team like that, they are fooling themselves.
Leeb you are late to the party, I have been saying this longer than you have been on this board. It takes great teamwork, trust and chemistry, great players make it easier for their teamates.... While Yao may not be great in some eyes, he creates amazing opportunities for players.....that they could not get elsewhere. I would love to have Azubuike....b****ed about JVG cutting him..... DD
Trust and teamwork are essential. But without great players you're just the Golden State Warriors from a couple of years back. Good enough to make some noise...not good enough to win a ring. Again..there are a few exceptions to this....the most recent Piston championship squad is one. But throughout the history of the league, it's been the GREAT players that have won rings. Hakeem couldn't do it by himself....but the Rockets never win a ring or even sniff one without him.
DaDa is trying to get the Rockets to be the recent Pistons championship team. And they didn't have a GREAT player but they are the exception and not the rule. Sure, I guess Yao can be our Ben Wallace I'd agree with that, but I don't agree with using that formula to build a championship team because it fails more often than not. Pistons were the exception, not the rule. And if the Lakers hadn't melted down in the finals, they wouldn't even be the exception.
DaDa, Rhester and MadMax: I'm going to agree with R and MM on this. Here's my measuring stick. With the game on the line in Q4, teams can reliably pressure Yao into turnovers or worse yet, single cover him with the likes of Gasol, Okur, Duncan, Chandler. No, I'm not saying they can stop yao cold, but he cannot dominate those matchups. If left 1 on 1, it's 50/50 or less that he delivers. Based on his record thus far, that's what i see. So long as that's the case, it's a microcosm of why he is not an elite player around which a championship team can be built. that said, there are only handful of true superstars in the league. If you don't have one, what do you do? You get enough of the every good players and do the best you can to compete and sell tickets. You develp an identity and try the Detroit formula. With tmac gone, we build around Yao, surround him with lock down defenders and spot up shooters. i think we'll see an offense much more dependnt on the 3 pointer, and a focus on stacking the floor with great defenders. Look to see a lot of Lowry, Artest, Battier and more Hayes. In short, look to see Van Gundy ball. With Yao and his game, for all its positives and negatives, that's the only way we can play. we'll have a 2nd team that utilize Scola in the low post or PNR situations, but our team will be the traditional inside out, with a focus on defense. It's unlikely that we win a ring on that formula because Yao isn't dominant enough (per my above comments), but it's our best shot.
Exactly, if we had scored Garnett last season instead of Boston we would have won the ring and they would be about where we are right now. Kevin Garnett is an elite great player and we shouldn't forget the impact he has made on the Celtics. He is exactly what Pierce needed to maximize his play and win it all. Put Garnett, Kobe or Lebron on the Rockets right now and we are there. Yao and spacing does nothing for me without an elite star in the mix.
No, I am facing the reality that Les is not going to trade or get rid of Yao Ming, and I think he is good enoug and presents his teamates with ample opportunities. So, I am going OK, if that is the REALITY, then how can the team build around that and be successful. You guys are sounding like the Timberwolves fans when talking about KG. The irony now of where they are after trading him.......because that is EXACTLY where Houston would be..... DD
Or....you trade Yao for value and draft picks... or...you let Yao's contract expire and use that money to attract free agents... I'm not saying I'd necessarily go that way...but I think it's an option. Of course, I doubt seriously the Rockets ownership considers it an option...Yao's untouchable for reasons that extend beyond the basketball court.
It means you either legit superstars like the original thread title suggested (Kobe, Labron, Wade etc), or you get legit role players (like Detroit did to win). If we'd traded TMAC for Billups + Prince (if it was proposed), instead of putting all our eggs on a flawed superstar, we'd have been a contender already.
Then you are back to being the 15-67 Rockets and hoping to get lucky in the draft. Yeah, that sounds AWESOME !! No, it took a team and chemistry, Pierce couldn't do it either, neither could Ray Allen.... So you take the ONE TIME IN NBA HISTORY that teams have married 3 star players to get a ring and think that is the formula? Most teams build through time.....with tweaks here and there until they get it right.... DD
can we drop the whole 'detroit formula' thing? It was a rare occurrence. They got sheed at a time when no one wanted him, Billups had been a journeyman, Ben Wallace was in his prime, and they had Okur coming off the bench. It's just unlikely that there will be another team to win the championship in that way again because of the money. Chauncey Billups was the finals mvp and he was making just as much money as Rafer Alston.
