If God exists

Well isn't that an idiotic statement? What if I told you the earth is the center of the universe, and that when we die we become a star to shine upon our descendants forever and forever. For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible, right?

 

Max, I have no problem being pinned down. Yes, I do believe in God.

I do not believe in religion, or more specifically religious texts written by a fallable man, with made up mythological stories from previous incarnations of explanations of what God is or isn't.

DD

 

Well to be honest my personal viewpoint is that he let us f$ck our own lives. Most people tend to think of ills and suffering as something abstract and always present in the world, but if you study it closely everything we're experiencing right now has a root cause. Born dirt poor? An ancestor of yours must have spent all the family money. Sickly and frail? Well maybe your parents have defective genes and so on and so forth.

I don't really believe that God is indifferent, more like interfering in mortal matters would probably be unfair to the billion other people out there. After all, if God intercedes on your behalf and makes you win the lottery, what about the million or so who also bought a ticket?

I think the only solution must have been for God to just let us be and see how it all plays out. Unfortunately we haven't really done a really good job over the eons and have been shooting ourselves in the foot over and over again. That's the price of freedom I guess...

 

So you're an agnostic? What were you before you stopped believing in religious texts?

 

I don't think you fully understand the quote.

 

I know you're making a point but the earth is actually in the center of the universe.

 

No..agnostics don't believe in God...they just don't rule out the possibility. DaDa is saying he believes.

 

What explains the suffering of those hungry in Africa?

 

There's enough food...we're too selfish and unmotivated and wasteful to share it.

 

roslolian said there was a root cause of things and implied that the suffering had to have done something to themselves to cause it? did I read it right?

So, if that is the case, what did those in Africa do to cause their current situation?

 

oh...i don't know about all that...i was just trying to answer your question.

 

Personally, I think that you either believe the whole Bible, every verse, every word - to be the literal word of God and handbook of life, or you have to interpret the Bible in a different way. I refuse to reject reason, science, progress, and compassion for humanity, so I fall into the latter category. If someone were to tell me that I couldn't be a "Christian" if I didn't believe the Bible as literal truth, I'd probably reject Christianity.

I love the teachings of Christ. But I don't believe that people should be put to death (for anything), nor that women should be subjugated in any way or not allowed to be ministers, or that slavery should be tolerated in any form, or that I should be forced to have long hair or wear a head covering. I have experienced the grace (I believe, of God) and have read of the spiritual truths and love evident in the life of Christ the Son. But I think it's ridiculous to not consider that the Bible was written by men, in a different day and age, in a different culture, all with different opinions.

"The Bible is a book that has been read more and examined less than any book that ever existed." --Thomas Paine

"The Holy Book of the living God suffers more from its exponents today than from its opponents." -Leonard Ravenhill

"Most people are bothered by those passages of Scripture they do not understand, but the passages that bother me are those I do understand." --Mark Twain

 

I believe in God, I think religion is made up hocus pocus stuff.

DD

 

Good post FB.

I agree pretty much word for word.

To provide some context re Twain's quote - I understand it that he was describing how hard it is to actually follow what the Bible says inregard to things like loving others and hating no one. Or keeping sex within marriage etc etc.

 

Just a curious question for posters who are part of a monothestic religion here. Assuming the following is true.

1. God(capital G, the only deity in the universe) of your religion exist.
2. He is everything your religion says he is.

Why would you ever need to give your life for God?

I don't really understand the premise of this question. Short of being a homicidal maniac, why would God guide a believer to his/her death? Doesn't that seem to contradict the very point of believing in a religion, and following its guidelines?

 

^I guess it could be phrased as giving your life to Him, and leading a life a rational self interested person wouldn't lead. That could be considered a death of sorts.

But there's also the story of Abraham and his son. It's pretty messed up on the surface, but it underlines a person's faith and his trust in God to ultimately see what is right.

Having said that, I can't see myself turning into a homicidal "maniac" (connotation of the word assumes I'm crazy) after feeling compelled from a divine source. There's possible situations where it could be socially acceptable or even ethical, but a test of faith in itself means that there's always a risk/price attached. Maybe I'll aim for a C+ instead and see how far that gets me in the afterlife....

 

The land explains it. It's not good a good part of Africa to grow things.

 

This was my exact response to this thread.

God, as presented in all His/Her possible forms, is all-powerful. Why would He/She give life and then ask His/Her creation to lay down that life in order to honor Him or Her? That, to me, would just be an ******* God.

I love almost everything I've read that's been attributed to Jesus Christ, Buddha and Allah. I hate a lot of what I've read that's been attributed to Yahweh.

But I take the good and leave the bad, knowing that even if the ideas are holy they are unavoidably tainted by the voice of Man.

I don't pretend to any special knowledge of a Creator, Savior or Prophet. I am grateful for this life, for having known the people and animals I've known. I don't pretend to know the unknowable. I just try to be kind and understanding.

If there is a God, I hope that that will be sufficient for Him. If not, if He is a jealous deity, needful of blind honors and requiring me to carry spite for non-believers or other "sinners," particularly if he requires me to consider my gay friends to be sinful in their pursuit of loving, happy relationships, I don't care to worship Him. I'd rather burn in Hell.

I know a few things for sure though. One is that no better, more compassionate ideas have existed on this earth than those that came from ideas of God and religion. Another is that more lives have been lost than have been saved in the name of religion. I mean literally, not spiritually. More people have killed than have lent a helping hand in God's name.

The question ought not to be would you lay down your life for God but would you lay down your life for another of God's creatures in His name. In my opinion we need to spend less time preaching and more time doing good works.

Max is right. There's plenty of food on this planet; we lack the will to share and spread it. Take just a little bit of the energy you'd otherwise spend praying, bowing, genuflecting or (God forbid) judging and spend it helping those who need it. That, to me, is God.

And I'm an agnostic. If I wind up in Hell for that, so be it.

 

Well, they began African slavery by selling captured rival tribes to Europeans, thus starting centuries of oppression and exploitation.