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Did Rudy really develop a new Rocket's offense?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by rocketsfan, May 1, 2002.

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  1. rocketsfan

    rocketsfan Member

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    I was reading the team reports from the TheRocketGuy in the bskball.com web-site and I came across this:
    Does anyone have any inside information that can confirm or deny that Rudy really developed a new hexagon offense for the team? If this is true, what the hell is a hexagon offense?:confused:

    I guess anything will be better than the iso-offense they seem to love some much!:)
     
  2. Jaybird

    Jaybird Member

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    LOL I have no idea, but the Hexagon offense either means Rudy's found a way to put a 6th player out onto the court. Or maybe he'll run an all out no in offense with 5 guys on the perimeter and no one in the post.

    It'd be shaped like a hexagon without the last corner.
     
  3. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    The Hexagon Offense is when Rudy bribes one of the refs to call the game in our favor. Unfortunately, it isn't as effective as the Lakers' Octogon Offense.
     
  4. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    No, No, No.

    TheRocketGuy means the Trapezoid Offense. But he's right, we did first start seeing glimpses of it last year. It was invented to beat defenses that are heavily trapping Steve by having the other 4 guys space out in pairs to form an amorphous parallelogram. It doesn't always look like a Trapezoid, but they chose the name based on using two pairs of teammates to work together to free Francis from Traps. Kind of a catching name, you have to admit.

    One pair is spread out from each other further than the other pair. And this spacing changes as dictated by Francis's movement. Thus you have a Strong Pair and a Skip Pair, as defined by how close they are to Francis. The two pairs can interchange from being the Strong Pair vs the Skip Pair (usually accompanied with a backpick), but each set of guys paired together remain a pair for the duration of the play.

    Further, the 2 guys in each pair can interchange their position independently of what the other pair is doing. For instance, the Skip Pair (the pair farther away from Francis) can interchange their position for a backdoor cut.

    By tying 2 pairs of 2 teammates together, and maintaining the two pairs in parallel spacing, this has the effect of a trapezoid structure of 4 players moving in accordance with the movements of a 5th point man. For instance, lets say they start in a classic box set with Francis at the top of the key. The Strong Pair (closest to him) will slant towards the baseline when Francis moves to a wing, and the Skip Pair will interchange with a backpick and end up in an equal (parallel) slanting angle to the baseline as the Strong Pair. If Francis continues baseline, the Strong Pair will interchange with a back pick for the high post man, and the Skip Pair low post man will be prepared for a dish from Stevie or to give Steve a baseline pick to come around the other side. At that point, the Skip Pair is now on the same side with Steve, and become the Strong Pair. That is the basic flex action of the Trapezoid Offense.

    This creates amorphous passing angles between the two parallel pairs, yet maintains spacing similar to the Triangle. The whole idea is to make it nearly impossible to trap Francis, and Mobley too, for that matter.

    Actually, in design, it more resembles Flip Saunders' hyperbolic paraboloid transitional floating zone, but from the offensive side of the Xs and Os.
     
    #4 heypartner, May 1, 2002
    Last edited: May 1, 2002
  5. GATER

    GATER Member

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    LMAO. :)
     
  6. GATER

    GATER Member

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    HP - I will readily admit that my X's and O's knowledge is a little weak. That said, I think you have used the term "backpick" more frequently in your description than I can recall seeing the Rockets perform it. ;)
     
    #6 GATER, May 1, 2002
    Last edited: May 1, 2002
  7. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    I rarely use it to describe the Rockets. I use it mostly to describe high post offenses like the Kings...at least, what they used to run before they remembered they are intimidated by the playoffs.
     
  8. Pat

    Pat Member

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    heypartner, how do you know that. I am really impressed.
     
  9. Dallas Rocket

    Dallas Rocket Member

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    Sounds like a schizophrenic rhomboid with serious latent hexagonal tendencies:D :D

    They're coming to take me away ha ha, ho ho................

    This only proves once and for all that more is less:cool:

    Dallas Rocket
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Good post, heyp. I read some about this earlier in the year and I've heard about it on some local radio shows, but it hasn't been talked about very much.
     
  11. red

    red Member

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    finally some legitamite bball talk...good post heypartner...
     
  12. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    Very imformative HP... and good post... I wish I could talk X's and O's like... but I do remember watching it last year and didn't know what they were calling it but it was effective at times... The problem is how will it work with the new rules...
     
  13. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Member

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    Did the loss of Taylor wreak that much havoc on our offense?
     
  14. AllenLeavell

    AllenLeavell Member

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    It was part of the problem because it was created to use
    Mo passing abilities that he rarely use but he reluctant to pass
    KT is not the passing Mo is . Although he is improving
     
  15. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Absolutely. His jumper and his passing out of the psuedo-high post would have been invaluable. KT doesn't have the passing skill Taylor does and he is more of a one-on-one player, which is fine in many instances but doens't really enhance this situation. Plus, Taylor's height allows him to pass over players which is something KT can't do as easily.
     
  16. leebigez

    leebigez Member

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    I guess thomas can't even do a simple handoff or Mobley can't do a z cut? If these guys can't do simple ,routine basketball functions, why do we have them. Its nothing Cat can't do that wesley person can do coming off a double down screen. What makes McCulloch such a great passer when all he does is handoff,sets screens,roll to the basket and reverse the ball? If Cato can't do this trade him. This so called new offense is a sham because the rockets whole idea is flawed. Watch teams that push the ball and pass ahead even after makes or misses. I guess Francis can't constantly push the ball and make his teammates run with him. Rudy had Mo gone early and a injured Rice even in preseason, so why was it so late to make modifications to this so called trapezoid offense? If teams trap francis, why not flash thomas to the free throw, then have francis get a handoff from hin while he is setting a pick? The coaching failed to adjust and that why our offense sucked the entire yr.
     
  17. Wakko67

    Wakko67 Member

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    If this is true, it is encouraging.
     
  18. bsb8532

    bsb8532 Member

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    leebigez,

    The problem is that our starting team was never on the floor last year. This offense was probably created to utilize both Mo's post-up/passing skills and Rice's jumpshot (which was nonexistent last year). Plus Steve was out for awhile. We essentially had to go with a scrub at SF and Kenny T at PF (who has no passing skills, I doubt handing off is even an option for him.....he's also a lot better at one-on-one than anything else).

    Also, we've known Cato sucks and would love to trade him but no one will take him

    Essentially we need our team out on the floor for the majority of the season. I doubt Rice will ever be worth a crap again, so hopefully we find a viable replacement for him (both Woods and Butler have good jumpshots....Woods would give us more athleticism and passing skills whereas Butler has more intagibles and defensive abilities).
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Excuses excuses.

    Rudy did not fully install any offense, or if he did, he gave up on it WAY to early.

    Why not utilize the time this year to teach the young guys a new offense? They were going to lose anyway....

    I think Rudy got owned this year by the new rules, he vastly underestimated the affect they would have on the Rockets one on one game.

    DaDakota
     
  20. jev6515

    jev6515 Member

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    I agree Dakota (to some extent). but you can run more than one offensive scheme in a game. it's not like the Rox used ISO all the time. I think what happened though was Rudy said SCREW THE NBA, I'LL SLOW THIS GAME DOWN WITH ISO IF I WANT TO. and essentially we lost Mo, Rice, and Francis and so the scheme just got smothered, albeit the new rules or personnel shortages. I do believe they went into the season with ISO frenzy and gradually began shifting to a new offensive style (after they discovered ISO wasn't going to work) something Rudy tinkered with last season. Saying that Rudy dropped the ball when he failed to adapt to the new rule changes is a little harsh. The NEW rules haven't been tried before, hence the name NEW. There was no data or study to show that ISO wouldn't work. It was suggested that ISO wouldn't work but that was all based on the presumptions that all teams would switch to zone defenses. I don't believe i saw a zone defense against the Rox until December. teaching the young guys to run the offense is irrelevent cause he may run a different offense with the reserves to allow their abilities to show. with possibly Lewis and two other Rooks coming in it should make for an interesting season next year.
     

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