1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Union slobs want more pay during recession; threaten strike at 11 Houston refineries

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bigtexxx, Jan 29, 2009.

  1. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    Go ahead and strike and demand more pay during the recession, you lazy slobs. I can't wait for your replacement works to permanently backfill your position, like the Northwest Airlines mechanics did 3 years ago. What's funny is that the oil companies will probably benefit from this strike, since refining margins are so low right now. However, there could be some real gasoline and other refined product shortages in the US if this were to happen - which would hurt Main Street.

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6235767.html

    Workers may strike at 11 Houston-area refineries
    By L.M. SIXEL
    Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle
    Jan. 28, 2009, 11:08PM

    Workers at 11 area refineries and chemical plants could go on strike as early as Sunday if ongoing negotiations fail to produce a new contract.

    Labor agreements that cover 30,000 energy and chemical workers nationwide, including 4,200 Houston-area employees, expire at 12:01 a.m. Sunday. Key remaining sticking points are wages, medical insurance, and health and safety concerns, said Alan Barnes, treasurer of the United Steelworkers union Local 13-1.

    So far, union negotiators have rejected two contract offers. The most recent one called for a 2.5 percent raise the first year and 2 percent raise in each of the second and third years of the contract, Barnes said.

    The union, which is meeting in Austin with officials from Shell Oil Co., lead negotiator for the energy industry, have said previously that workers are seeking “substantial” wage increases. Barnes said union officials were waiting for another contract offer to arrive late Wednesday.

    Local facilities affected by the contract talks include Shell’s Deer Park refinery, chemical plant and chemical lab; BP’s Texas City refinery and chemical plant; INEOS NOVA chemical in Texas City; Chevron-Phillips Chemical Co.’s plant in Pasadena; LyondellBasell Industries’ refinery in Houston; BP Pipeline; and Pasadena Refining System.

    Squeezed margins
    While union officials say they’re ready to strike if they must, they’d be doing it at a time of squeezed refining margins — the difference between what a refiner pays for a barrel of crude and what it gets for the products made from it.

    If they do walk out, companies could save money in the long run because of “very, very poor” margins in the current market, said Peter Beutel, oil analyst and president of Cameron Hanover in New Canaan, Conn. He pointed out he is not taking a side.

    On Tuesday, Valero Energy Corp. said it was shutting down its refinery in Texas City instead of keeping parts of it open while it performs regular maintenance. Typically, a refinery keeps running units that aren’t undergoing work so its owner can keep selling products.

    BP told employees and union leaders it would not train replacement workers to operate refineries in the event of a strike. Spokesman Michael Marr said that the company believed that strike training would stop or even reverse its progress on a safety initiative. Marr said the company is optimistic about reaching an agreement.

    Backups at LyondellBasell
    LyondellBasell’s Houston refinery has trained management personnel to operate its 700-acre plant, spokesman David Harpole said. About 500 refinery workers are represented by the union.

    Tom Strifler, vice president of manufacturing for INEOS NOVA, said the chemical plant in Texas City is down and hasn’t been restarted since Hurricane Ike. The company doesn’t plan to restart until market conditions improve. Marathon’s refinery in Texas City and Exxon Mobil’s in Baytown also are part of the bargaining, but their contracts don’t expire until later.

    Even if a national deal is agreed upon, workers at individual refineries can strike over local issues. And Barnes said that’s a possibility for the 900 workers at Shell’s Deer Park refinery and chemical plant.

    One of the sticking points is a proposal by Shell to limit the amount of overtime each employee can work to 30 percent of their normal annual hours to prevent fatigue. But management reserves the right to waive the rule and requires some employees to work more overtime than the cap permits, said Barnes.

    The union also is upset with Shell’s proposal to stop using a seniority system for assignments and to replace more employees with contract workers, said Barnes.

    “Shell is committed to providing a safe workplace for our employees, contractors and local communities,” said David McKinney, communications manager at Shell Deer Park. “The changes we propose in the contract with USW regarding overtime and excessive job changes are intended to do just that.”

    lm.sixel@chron.com
     
  2. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,868
    Likes Received:
    3,741
    No comment on the strike, but guys who work in refineries aren't lazy. you need to calm down a bit
     
  3. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    49,024
    Likes Received:
    19,983
    Seriously. Lazy? Chill out. What kind of basis do you have to say something so stupid?
     
  4. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    The vast majority of the union members I've worked with have been lazy. They sit back and rely on their seniority system to justify their laziness. Don't ask them to go over and above their job specifications without significant overtime or you'll get a call from their union boss. Now they have the nerve to demand more pay during the recession, and they're willing to strike over it.

    pgabs and donnymost - what do you think of their potential strike, which could cause refined product shortages for Main Street?
     
  5. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    49,024
    Likes Received:
    19,983
    You have sullied your good name by working with.. gasp.. unions?

    This conversation is *over*.
     
  6. fadeaway

    fadeaway Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2000
    Messages:
    14,706
    Likes Received:
    1,193
    You can't make a generalization like that, though. Just because you have had experiences with some lazy union workers does not mean that all union workers are lazy.
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,614
    Likes Received:
    40,185
    Striking now is a bad idea.

    DD
     
  8. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2002
    Messages:
    14,138
    Likes Received:
    1,882
    What texx said is true in many union shops. Things like that are what keeps many union shops from being really efficient. You have to classify all the job responsibilities and no one is suppose to touch anything that is not classified for them. So you have the situation where some areas are over loaded while other areas have nothing to do.
     
  9. Behad

    Behad Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 1999
    Messages:
    12,358
    Likes Received:
    193
    bt, you don't know what the f*** you are talking about. How's this for a generalization: You and your twin trader_idiot are arrogant pricks, so everyone in your whole family must be arrogant pricks.


    For those who want the bottom line...it's not about wages. This paragraph explains it all:

    That's the number one issue. Those of you that know me understand how I know.
     
  10. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    Actually, I do know what I'm talking about, but thanks for the personal insult, anyways. :rolleyes:

    Seniority systems are an absurdly antiquated way to approach assignments and should not be used. How about using merit to make job assignments? Do you see any value in that?
     
  11. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    59,079
    Likes Received:
    52,752
    I was waiting for Behad's take on this strike - my uncle has been an operator down there for 25 years and he is far from lazy.
     
  12. pmac

    pmac Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    8,416
    Likes Received:
    3,302
    Is asking to get paid for what you do lazy?
     
  13. Behad

    Behad Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 1999
    Messages:
    12,358
    Likes Received:
    193
    And calling me a lazy slob was not a personal insult?


    For the record, I took a staff job three years ago. But I can tell you that 95% of the union workers there are NOT lazy. I suspect that is a higher percentage than other non-union occupations.

    I don't agree nor disagree with the union's position. But I absolutely believe in their right to collectively bargain.
     
  14. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    Well I dug up quite an interesting post from back in 2003. This could shed some light on the matter.

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=931681&postcount=7
     
  15. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    472
    What an insulting prig. Just remember folks, it’s unions that brought you things like the weekend.
     
  16. weslinder

    weslinder Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    Fixed that for you. I've worked at several manufacturing facilities. I haven't met a union worker yet who wasn't an overtime hound. I knew some who would do anything to get onto a 7-12 schedule.
     
  17. Behad

    Behad Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 1999
    Messages:
    12,358
    Likes Received:
    193
  18. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,105
    Likes Received:
    3,612
    Look bigtexx is a self described "country club" Republican. He has dissed the troops by claiming his office work in a typical MBA job is more important than their work. Similarly he undoubtedly views refinery workers as being beneath his office work. What do you expect? Egalitarianism or viewing the folks working at the country club as possibly his equals as human beings?

    BTW, why not comment on the strike? They certainly are entitled to do so.
    Pathetic as the attempt might be, would you suggest that bigtexx would be unpatriotic if he tried to negotiate a raise at his job?
     
  19. SamCassell

    SamCassell Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    9,591
    Likes Received:
    2,538
    I agree with this. I also believe union workers are generally good workers, I don't believe they're any lazier than any other worker.

    I also think businesses should have the right to hire whoever they want, be it union or non-union or contract labor or whatever. Why shouldn't they have that right? If the union wage for a janitor is $20 and hour and the business can get a guy who can do the job for $10/hr, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?
     
  20. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,105
    Likes Received:
    3,612
    Social policy. It is good for the country to have a secure middle class.

    The way to accomplish this is to reform the laws that effectively prevent unions for the vast majority that want them.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now