Blame the east-coast media. If the Knicks had won in 94, there would be no asterix talk. They're just bitter because their team didn't win.
Right on Outlaw! The media has a lot to do with why Houston whether it is Rockets, Comets, or Astros is always slighted. I agree no Rocket fan considers the championships tainted. I think we would have beat them in 1994 for sure with Mad Max all over Jordan, with Otis Thorpe, Sam Cassell and Kenny Smith contributing and Hakeem having his way with whatever role player center the Bulls had. There would have been no 3-peat for the Bulls without Rodman. That alien can take credit for that with no doubt. He pushed them over the top. I don't think the Spurs championship was tainted because of a short schedule cus it was so grueling, and how can anyone seriously asterisk a Houston team with two championships in a row. It's really ridiculous. As far as Barkley and Olajuwon, I think Olajuwon has the edge. Even Chuck has said his best teams in Phoenix couldn't quite get past Hakeem. ------------------
Whether or not the Rockets of 94 or 95 would have beaten Chicago is not an argument that anyone can win, because there is no way to PROVE it. But we have to be careful when we say the media is somewhat responsible. Here in Salt Lake, EVERYTHING is blamed on the national media "slighting" our beloved (?) Jazz. That's one reason that it is hard to find anyone who hates the Jazz more than I do. You have to grow up around it. No one hates your ex-wife as much as you do, because only you know just how b****Y she was. It's the same way with the Jazz. But, anyway, blaming it on the media is no way to resolve the argument. Hakeem won titles, and, sadly, Charles didn't. And titles are the measure of a TRUE champion (That's RIGHT, Utah.) ------------------ Jazzkiller
I agree with the media part it has a lot to do with it. Also I, who posted the original message, agree that the championships are not tainted and I do believe The Dream is better than Sir Charles. Charles does have one thing that Hakeem does not have and that is NBA All-Star MVP but I know any player in the NBA would take two championships and two Finals MVPs over that. ------------------
We could have shut everybody up with a win in the finals over Jordan in 96', 97' or 98'. If we are that concerned with what the media says about "a tainted championship" we should have taken care of the business ourselves. No one to fault but overselves in this. Again though, 1) no one can take away the Rockets championships--they swept the team that defeated Jordan's in the playoffs for pete sake, and 2) Barkley was never the player Hakeem was. But then neither was Malone, Payton, Drexler, Pippen, Robinson, Ewing, and I would take a 1994 Barkley over any of these guys in their very best year. ------------------
The argument that championships is a good judge of a player is ludicrous. Championships are a measure of a team, otherwise one would say that Longley or Kerr or BJ Armstrong is better than Barkley. ------------------ Kapaayaaaa!!
Hydra, I agree whole-heartedly with your post.Using championships to determine greatness is hardly the best way to do so. If,per chance,Griffey Jr becomes baseballs all time HR leader,and never wins a World Series,does that mean Ruth,Aaron,Mays,etc are all better players than him? Is Elway better than Marino because he played on 2 teams that won SuperBowls? How about Emmitt Smith over Barry Sanders? In my humble opinion,Barkley was every bit as good as Olajuwan was. Both were virtually unstoppable in their primes,both were great rebounders as well.Dream was ,undeniably,the much better defender,but Barkley was the much better passer.I guess I favor Barkley more because of how much he accomplished given his obvious physical shortcomings.In alot of games,I bet he was the shortest guy on the court,and he still dominated games like no-one his size ever has. I doubt we will ever see another player like him. In conclusion,has anyone ever thought about this: If Barkley was as tall as Hakeem,what kind of numbers would he have put up?Conversely,if Hakeem was Barkley's height,would his numbers be close to what Barkley put up? ------------------
We would have won another championship in 96 but I am sorry to say that when we traded for Barkley we lost any chance. Barkley only took away from Hakeem in the post, so we didn't gain anything there, but we lost Cassell and Horry, two vital parts of the championship. We may have still been winning if we didn't make that trade. We lost Drexler and Pippen because they didn't get along with Barkley. I respect him, but he was the biggest mistake the Rockets ever made. ------------------
if you want to really TICK me off, just argue with me about this topic... i get really pissed off when people say the Rockets would have no championships if Jordan never left. it's like saying the Bulls championships should have asterisks, because if Jabar never retired, the Bulls would have nothing. if you get into an argument with someone about this... just say that Jordan was in the league in '96, and we were in the Finals waiting for him and his sorry ass Bulls, but they decided not to come to the challenge. we swept the team that kicked their sorry asses out!!! (then they'll argue back, he only played half-season. you can't expect him to play his best with only a half-season of work) he scored 55 against the Knicks, 47 i think against the Hawks... all of the media praised how he is back. but when he loses, he never did get back? so he made a full return to bball, then all of a sudden left? i don't get it? people always like to protect Jordan's image... that's why i hate jordan jockers... ------------------
Each of Chicago's 3-peats were won by different teams. The key ingredient to both teams was Jordan and Pippen (blasphemy), but they were still different teams. Jordan took care of his business in the playoffs as he always did, but the supporting players couldn't hang with a very good Magic team------ that got swept!
Rockeem, you selectively forget what happened to us the year BEFORE Barkley arrived. I will remind you, we got SWEPT by the Sonics AGAIN. To say the Barkley trade was the biggest mistake we ever made is ludicrous, IMO. What have Cassell, Horry, Bryant and Brown done since the trade??? Except for some good numbers by Cassell when he stays healthy , not much. Horry may get a championship this year, but it wouldn't matter whether he was on that team or not. If you want "bigger" mistakes we made, try never signing a playoff tested veteran point guard this side of Derrick Harper, Terry Porter or KJ from like 97-99. Back to the Barkley/Hakeem debate. I am a big fan of both players but there is no way Barkley was the equal player of Hakeem, championship or no championship. Hakeem might have been a more dominant player than Jordan. It was a shame they never competed in the finals, all other players from like 86-96 are clearly vying for 3rd best in that era, in my opinion Barkley tops the second list of great players. Malone, Shaq or Robinson would probably be in the 4th spot (probably Malone). [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited April 12, 2000).]
Horry is not getting much of chance in LA. Plus you forgot that Horry was playing with Hakeem in Houston and that Hakeem makes a player like Horry a lot better. ------------------
Same should apply now with him playing for Shaq, except Horry now is a completely ordinary (not that he is terrible), but overpayed, player. You still never addressed the fact GP and boys blew us away in strait sets no less before we got Barkley, and after we took care of them. It is not so simple to say it was a good trade or a bad trade, we developed a new set of weaknesses and gained significant strengths. Personally, I don't think we would have had the fighting chance we did if Barkley wasn't on the team the last couple of years but this latter point could be debated. ------------------
If there are any asterisks on NBA Champions, it would be next to the SPURS because of the short season. ------------------ www.takeoutmusic.com- the future of independent music
truthfully the third year with drexler and hakeem i think the rockets should have gotten rodman... we lost a power forward when we got clyde.... adding barkley with the role players i think would have been great but instead we were frightened by the sweep against seatle and we got ourselves barkley with a lack of role players the season he came. i think an add of a powerforward tht year not an awesome but one that could be a strong defensive stopper would have been sufficient to go against the jazz and the sonics that year which would then allow our team to have the same nucleus and chemistry we won the two champs with ------------------ TycoonChip
truthfully the third year with drexler and hakeem i think the rockets should have gotten rodman... we lost a power forward when we got clyde.... adding barkley with the role players i think would have been great but instead we were frightened by the sweep against seatle and we got ourselves barkley with a lack of role players the season he came. i think an add of a powerforward tht year not an awesome but one that could be a strong defensive stopper would have been sufficient to go against the jazz and the sonics that year which would then allow our team to have the same nucleus and chemistry we won the two champs with ------------------ TycoonChip
sir scarvajal, Rockeem was posting in another forum and I took an opposing viewoint. Stated facts to support my position and asked Rockeem for supporting facts to validate his/her position. I am still waiting for a response and you will probably be kept waiting in this thread also. Good luck. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/006279.html Mango ------------------ The Serious Police are watching Donate Blood [This message has been edited by Mango (edited April 12, 2000).]
I don't think it was tainted at all, Jordon was playing in playoffs in 96 after all. Still, I am not surprised with the occasional slight at the Rockets expense. But it is the Rockets own darn fault. They never again showed the "Heart of a Champion" after 96' despite having 3 fall of famers there most of the time since. It is a total shame we never got to see Hakeem versus Jordan in the finals. As a team we lost our focus and desire for the most part where the Jazz and Bulls wanted it more, but it is history. The tainted rings argument is BS, but we brought it on ourselves. [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited April 12, 2000).]
