Please please calm down people. Hurling threats and insults is not going to solve anything. Both sides in the ME are the problem and until they see that working toward a common goal while showing some form of restraint...progress will be hard to come by. I don't believe Sharon and Arafat are the leaders who will lead to peace. Their pasts speak for themselves. They know nothing more than violence and retaliation. Sharon has put his foot in his mouth on several occassions but so has Arafat. I don't think any amount of political intervention with them in charge is going to lead to any kind of peaceful solution. Forceful military intervention by outsiders might do the trick but you will not find any third party interested in doing that. Militant groups who live and die by their own cause aren't helping, either. I think if God or Allah came down from Heaven and tried to stop the violence himself...he may fail(unless he just wipes the area clean). It is a very sad and unfortunate situation. Hatred runs deep and there is no end in sight. You have no choice but to deal with the leaders of both sides and get them in political dialogue in an attempt to make baby steps toward progress and peace. Israel is not just going to withdraw from occupied territories without a guarantee of security and for Palestinians to use violence and terror as a means to achieve that withdrawal is not going to work and, instead, increase the Israeli incursions and destruction. Given Sharon's violent past, he will not hesitate to do it as he has shown. Answering violence with violence isn't an answer but its the only answer either side has for each other....ever. Until both sides see that this is futile, then it will continue forever blinded by a vision that one side will eventually succumb...which will not happen. With neither side willing to make concessions and no third party willing to forcefully intervene, the death and destruction will only continue.
Pole said: Shouldn't you be back in Pakistan martyring yourself or something? Way to unmask yourself, pole. My choice for ignorant post of at least the month.
Hey for you guys that are bored with the Middle East and political issues, why don't you do what I do to your threads on the latest MTV video, playstation game or whatever, just choose not to post or perhaps not even read. If you are so bored or uninterested in a topic, just skip it.
What people are bored with are the cut and paste propaganda threads...Very different from a harmless thread on music or games.
This is my personal opinion, but I'll never tell someone not to post on any topic. It's been said before in this thread, but you don't have to read or respond to anything on this board. I'm probably as guilty as anyone of the "cut-and-paste propaganda" posts, and I'll try to limit those. I enjoy reading the differing viewpoints posted by others, it's always good to look at all sides of an issue.
Alright Jeff.. now does this qualify as a statement that would demand an apology?.. this is a blatant attack on the character of a BBS Member and has nothing to do with opinions of a topic. F.D., it breaks my heart to hear your stories of Palestinian and Bosnian refugees. What happened in Bosnia was HORRIBLE and I hope it never happens again. However, you complain that I respond immediately, with a sarcastic remark, after you post something that dehumanizes Israel an its supporters. Most of these articles that come from European "independant" sources are not very unbiased as you think they are. Anti-semitism is strong in Europe and has always been. I stand very strong with Israel and I believe that it as done its best against the murderous terrorist groups who think they can end their "suffering" by blowing themselves up. To refrain from being sarcastic..let me be very serious.. if you call Israelis Nazis, you call me a Nazi. If you call Israelis Barbarians, you call me a barbarian. I am proud to be American and I am proud to be Jewish. Almost every anti-Israel article I have read only speaks that Israel acts as barbarians and has no regaurd for human life. You have attacked(indirectly) those who support Israel and labeled us as supporters of murderers and oppressors of innocents. I don't know if I have been out of line in the past on this BBS(and if I have, I apologize).. but you crossed it here. Thanks Buck for posting your article, you made my day!
Buck, FWIW, my impression is that a number of your posts are very important. Thanks for your work finding relevant and helpful links.
Dear Franchise 2001, let me be serious also. You seem to be quick to dismiss the Europeans and I suppose the rest of the UN as being "anit-semitic". Anti-semticism does exist; so do people who are quick to call anyone who criticizes Sharon or whatever is the current postion of Israel as "anti-semite". Likewise, Jews who don't agree, are called "self-hating" . Such name calling is a crude excuse for thinking. We know you are for Israel. That is probably an unanimous or very close to it position on this bbs. To borrow from a Jewish writer, whom I've forgotten. There are two wars going on. One is to defend the pre 1967 Israel borders. This is a just war and is in accord with international law. The second war is to consolidate the permanent conquest of the land gained in the 1967 war. This is not a just war and is against international law. The recent Arab proposals, which incoveniently for Sharon came out a day or two before his long planned invasion essentially accepted this position. This is the position that the world supports against Sharon and those who support him. I guess a key question is whether you believe that the Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Gaza should be dismantled as a step toward peace? Another one is whether you are with Sharon and were against the Oslo Accords that set up the Palestinian Authority. Sharon apparently is planning to just annex half the West Bank put up a wall and try to pretend that Oslo and the rest of the world don't exist. So what are your positions on these questions?
judging from articles, it would appear as if anti-semitism is a bit more popular in Europe than it has been in some time...France in particular is struggling with that right now, as I understand it, with frequent attacks on synagogues...but i'm too lazy to post links to those stories!!
Madmax, you do seem to be correct there is more of these syanagogue incidents in France.. No links either. Unfortunately the policies of Sharon and his backers lead to the expression of anti-semitism. These policies even might create anti-semiticism among Arabs and those who feel strongly that Palestinians need a homeland in the "occupied territories" among those who fail to distinguish their hate for the Jews llike Sharon who create atrocitites like Sabra, Shatila and Jenin from the Jewish people as a whole. Jews not blinded by Sharonism do see this and this is one of the reason they do not support Sharon and Israeli policies at this time. Regarding links and stories. It would certainly be best if we don't cut and paste whole articles. Maybe a paragraph or two to support one's statment with the link. (I have been guilty of this, for sure). Especially if it an extreme article in one direction or the other, the other side is extremely unlikely to even read much of it.
This is unfortunate. I know it isn't true, but I would hope that the rest of the world didn't think all my opinions aligned with that of President Bush and then choose to either hate/like me based off that. I know it isn't how I think of Arabs/Israelis or any other people for that matter. I don't think all Jewish people who support Sharon are blinded by anything. They simply recongize that there have been leaders in the past who have attempted to solve this conflict in peaceful manners and that didn't work at all either. So now they are seeing if Sharon's tactics will work. In the end, Jewish policy has changed whereas Arafat and his policy has remained a constant.
