Why Dunleavy?? Am I missing something?

NJRocket should be around sometime or other to tell you that Dunleavy is not coming out. Ignore him. He's the only one that buys that 'staying in school' line.



As for who we should pick, I really don't know.

 

Dunleavy probably is not as good as Woods or Butler. However, he would be the best fit for this team.

 

KR feels (he might be right) that MD2 is a Rudy kind a of player. You know, a player who can hit the 3, handle well for his size, and see the court. A player who also continue our trend towards collectively being the team that most lights up opponents eyes as they get ready to pad their offensive stats. I player who will not be able to adequately defend any NBA player he might face, a player who flops often but you aren't sure it trully is a flop because he isn't physically strong. (OK I added the second 2 sentences about a "Rudy kind of player" )

I don't care if Dunleavy would make the draft deeper, please don't come out until next year when we won't have a pick. Please stay at school Mike.

 

Butler and Woods have been "the man" ever since they've been playing basketball.

If they came to the Rockets, they would have to adapt to being a spot-up shooter from the 3 spot. If you've watched the Rockets play over the last 10 years, you would have noticed that the Rockets SF main role is to nail open 3s off of double teams. We've done that with Horry, Elie, Pippen, Walt, Bullard, Rice, I can go on and on...

Dunleavy basically had that role this year with Duke, playing alongside Jason Williams and Boozer.

Moreover, Dunleavy has showed himself to be adept at moving without the ball. Something that I don't know if Butler or Woods can do, because they have always been the primary scorer.

I know that Dunleavy isn't a great defender, but not too many rookies in the NBA every play good defense anyway.

Perhaps when Dunleavy grows into his 6 ft 9 frame, he would be more of an adequate defender?

I would also say that Dunleavy is a better passer/ballhandler than Butler. I don't know enough about Woods to say anything. What this means is that Dunleavy gives the Rockets a tall ballhandler. 90% of the time when our opponents throw traps at us, we turn the ball over way too many times. The cure for fullcourt defense/traps is having tall ballhandlers who can pass over the defense.

If you haven't noticed, the Rockets have a problem with ball distribution. Really, the LAST THING we need is another guy who must have the ball in his hands to be able to score. This definitely would mean Caron Butler, and I'm assuming Woods.

I like Butler's game, but he would not fit in with our team, until our 3 dribbling guards decide to change their ways.

If we could get Francis, Mobley, and Norris to pass the ball, then I would say get Woods or Butler.

However, I don't forsee anything changing, and with that, we're better off with a guy who can score without having to have the ball in his hands for half the shot clock.

Remember, there is only 24 seconds to shoot the ball, and only 1 ball to shoot with...

That's why you need 5 guys who work the best TOGETHER. Not the 5 best individuals.

Bringing in a Butler or Woods would add to our ISO offense woes.

 

KR are you saying Micheal Finley or Paul Pierce wouldn't fit in the Rockets because they need the ball in their hands? Because those are players Butler to me looks similar to offensively and defensely. I think Butler will take the open shot, and if needed create a mid range shot or dribble drive, but I don't remember his forcing shots unneccesarily.

Personally I think if you are "a player" you want to be around others that can shoot. If Bird, McHale, Ainge and Parrish can co-exist, I don't think their is a problem with having too many great offensive players. Too many selfish offensive players is a problem, but I have not seen any evidence of this in Caron.

Caron is a light years better defender and a more multi-dimesional scorer than Dunleavy. MD2 main (not unimportant) advantage I can see is his height (and perhaps court sense, but again Caron looks smart out there to me as well). To me that isn't enough.

 

scar-Surely, Scottie Pippen would have thrived in our offense right?



Pierce and Finley are both great players, but would be lucky to average close to 20 ppg in our system.

Francis and Mobley would have to "back off" and allow a Pierce or Finley to do their thing.

Again, the last thing we need are guys who need the ball in their hands to be effective. We need guys who cut to the basket or roam the perimeter to get open.

I highly doubt that Pierce or Finley would be happy on the Rockets, assuming that our 3 guards continue to dribble around in circles.

I am basing my theory on the 10+ seasons that Rudy has coached here. Ironically, the SF's role is as thin as Calista Flockhart. I say ironically, because Rudy was a pretty damn good SF himself. You'd think that Rudy would want to feature the SF.

Until our 3 guards show a willingness to pass the ball to anyone else but each other, a stellar SF like Pierce would not fit in with us.

Pierce would need to have the ball to get in a rhythm. His whole game thrives on versatlity inside and outside. When he's standing at the 3 pt line, his mid-range game will be obsolete.

Dunleavy, being used to not having the ball, wouldn't require having the ball to get going.

 

One more point about Dunleavy... He would immediately be the most saavy Rocket. As well as the best ballhandler in transition. Francis is the worst PG in the league at controlling a fast break. I'd rather have Dunleavy leading the break...

 

Dude, if Pippen could shoot like Glen Rice he would have been just fine in our offense. His problem was he wasn't an excellent enough spot shooter so teams would rather give him that than risk him blowing by them or leaving Charles/Hakeem 1 on 1 in the low block.

I don't know if you watch Dallas much but Finley is the 3rd or 4th option most of the time and is just fine. Nash, Nowitski and sometimes NVE are the main playmakers and dominate the ball and Finley feeds off them most of the time. Now Finley can create if the matchup is favorable, but he can also play great defense, knock down the open long J or short J created by the other fellas, or finish the break. Again, quite the role I could see Butler doing for us. Granted how Pierce would function is a little hard to tell, but he plays with an even bigger ball hog than any we have and he still scored over 25PPG.

Again too many excellent offensive players isn't the problem, too many selfish ones are. And if Stevie and CM really are that selfish (we don't know until we have good players they can pass to) then no group of players around them will be enough.

 

Actually, I've watched 40+ games of Dal on League Pass. And the reason why Finley gets his shots is because Dal does a great job with ball movement. When Nash isn't shooting it himself, he's doing a good job of involving guys like Finley in the offense.

Dallas offense might be the exact opposite of the Rockets offense. To say that Finley can do what he does in Dal's BALANCED OFFENSE, is fine. Just don't expect a direct correlation of success in the Rockets offense.

Surely, you would agree that Dal has great ball movement? While the Rockets are the worst in the NBA in ball movement?

No one guy in the Dal offense really dominates the ball. The 4th option is not much different than the 1st option in their offense.

In our offense, there is no 3rd option. Unless our 3 guards are in the game at the same time.

When it's just Francis and Mobley, we only have 2 options.

Clearly you can see that right?

 

Point is, that a player like Finley needs to be able to do his thing first, which opens up his 3 pt shot.

Who is to say that Finley will be given the ball to open up his complete game?

What SF has been allowed to do that in the past with the Rockets?

Fact of the matter remains that the SF is the most handcuffed position in our lineup.

Rudy has been way too stubborn to change his philsophy.

Obviously, Pippen's strengths weren't shooting 3s, but rather slashing and creating.

The fact that Rudy STILL did not change his offense to fit Pippen's strengths, makes me 99% sure that he won't change the offense around a rookie like Butler or Woods.

I think you don't see my point that not all players can just go into a game and spot-up and hit 3s. Many of them need to get into a rhythm FIRST, and then their outside shots start to go down.

Will Finley, Butler, or whoever, be given the chance to get in that rhythm?

Will Francis and Mobley be willing to sacrafice shots, and ballhandling duties for a rookie like Butler? I'm not too optimistic about that...

 

I can't speak to Woods, but from what I have seen Butler would fit the offense quite well--Rudy wouldn't have to change a thing. Look at the 3's Rudy has gone for since Pippen (Walt, Rice), they have been the 3 point dead ringers who also can get by you if you overplay their 3 point shot (Pippen was the reverse). The perfect SF for the Rockets would be a younger Rice (who was always in a rythum) who can play D like Artest--and I think the closest player to this is Butler. I don't disagree that MD would seem to fit the offensive philosophy as well, I just think you are making a lot of assumptions saying Butler's skills would not fit in. I

Besides the fact I think our defense ineptness is a greater problem than our offense, I guess I think our offensive problems have less to do with ball movement than the fact the forwards we have can't knock down the looks they do get. This puts further pressure our guards to break down defenses sagging on them and pressure on them generating better looks for their fellow players then would be the case for most NBA players. Basically, if Franchise and Mobley had the Dallas front line I think (I hope or we will be in huge trouble) our ball movment would get a ton better. I still also contend however that Finley has mainly been set up by Nash and Notwitski the last 2 years, less and less is Dallas just handing him the ball to "do his own thing" first. He seems fine playing tough D and being set up by other players for the most part.

 

While you bring up valid points...

Our overall team defense needs improvement, as in defensive rotation. We surrendered way too many open shots. It's much easier for the Rockets to improve their defensive rotation, than it is for our guys to become better man-to-man defenders.

I really hope that Rudy works on rotating on defense. With the new rules, the Rockets should be able to double team without getting burned so often, if their rotational d is any good.

Butler would probably instantly be our #1 man-to-man defender.

I have no problem with Butler, but I am skeptical if he can get unshackled in our offense.

No matter who we draft, we must work on team defense.

 

That's poor logic for picking a player, most notably because you never know how a player will develop. Just because Butler or Woods are the best talent on their team, they won't have the ability to play within a system?

Once again, you're making assumptions that may or may not be true. Frankly, I think Rudy T's system isn't one that fosters great success. Without a reliable low post threat, I don't see a posibility at winning a title. Maybe finally getting a dynamic 3, would finally wake everyone up to the need to change the offensive system.

How many games have you seen each particular player play? Honestly, I'd say Butler's the much better ballhandler. For Dunleavy's size he's got a good handle, but it's no greater than I've seen out of others, like Tmo or Battier, in the ACC.

Actually I disagree completely with that statement. Butler or Woods bring us another player who can show just how limiting our current offense is, and would help if and when it got changed.

Bringing in Dunleavy only helps the current offensive system do better, and continues "our ISO offense woes." I think you're looking to treat a symptom without curing the disease.

 

Jaybird-There really is no reason for me to believe that the Rockets will change the system they've had for the last 10 years, unless we have a different coach.

Rudy is a very stubborn coach. If Scottie Pippen couldn't get Rudy to change, I definitely don't expect Rudy to "bend the rules" for a rookie.

I will be the first to admit that Butler and Woods are more talented than Dunleavy.

The question is, what kind of offense will we have?

If Rudy doesn't pull his head out of his ass, and sticks with the ISO, then Dunleavy is your man.

If Rudy wisens up, then Butler or Woods, though I'd take Butler.

I guess we'll see in the next half year how it all develops.

 

I have no doubt that Butler and Woods are good (maybe very good) athletes. Are they any more athletic than Richard Jefferson? Maybe...maybe no, but the Rockets have enough athletes.

The attraction for those who can't see it is BBall smarts. A father who is a coach and then playing big time ball for Coach K is a great foundation.

 

What? I thought our key problem is our frontline is about the least athletic in the league. Our 3's who are any good offensively (Rice, Walt) are slow as molassus defensively, last year's 4s are either too short (KT) or too weak (EG), the 4 we have coming back who is tall and big enough is slow defensively and on the boards, and our centers either lacking in grace, range and coordination (Cato) or is slow as molassus (Collier).

We need long, strong and/or athletic front court people that can play. That would help solve innumerous defensive (it is amazing what quickness and/or length does to improve rotations) and offensive problems (getting more easy baskets via OReb or beating their man down the court or converting in the interior).