I know that some of the (R)republicans on the board have stressed at times that they don't really beleive that the US was formed to be a democracy. How does everyone feel about the latest attempt to overthrow a democracy that pissed off American oil companies and rich right wing Americans whose friends in the foreign countries were disturbed? Bush and Venezuela
You are as far left as Treeman was right. Glynch you are quickly approaching the "Sky is falling" status. DaDakota
glynch, As tpl has pointed out, Venezuelans hated their "president" who basically lied his way into office and then changed after he won. This seems to be one example of good US interference in L.A. Although many others have been bad.
their "president" who basically lied his way into office and then changed after he won. Isn't that what all our Presidents do?! Seriously, though, that still doesn't justify the US supporting a coup, if that is true. That's an internal matter for Venezuelans to decide on. If Bush suddenly changed, would we accept Mexico conspiring with Americans to pull off a coup? The US has a history of this type of stuff, and that's the reason that many countries don't jump on the "protecting freedom and democracy" battle-cry we always use when trying to get international support.
What? Does it suprise anyone that we actually want the whole world to conform to our way of thinking and government? It seems there is nothing common about sense anymore. DaDakota
What? Does it suprise anyone that we actually want the whole world to conform to our way of thinking and government? So you think it's OK to override the will of a democratically elected people to set up governments we like? ... and then you actually wonder why people in other countries dislike us? It seems there is nothing common about sense anymore. Nope.
Major, I am not trying to justify...I am just saying that this one wasn't as bad as other US interventions in Latin American in which we supported and defended or brought into power despotic and violent leaders.
Major, I did not say I supported it, just that it does not surprise me, to tell you the truth I really don't know how I feel about overthrowing other governments. We did try the hide in the sand thing last century and we got dragged into 2 world wars, maybe the pendulum has swung the other way. DaDakota
Glynch, where do you live geographically? If you're in Houston, I salute you. It takes balls to be a Democrat in Houston. When I lived there, I felt really out of place. I joked that I might start a new club: The White Male Heterosexual Democrats of Houston. But the club would probably fail for lack of membership. I don't like U.S. intervention in these situations but I know better than to think any administration, especially Republican and put into office by oil corporations, would not step into a conflict in our hemisphere's back yard. You can bet some businessmen here, including some in the administration, are looking nervously at the bottom line and pulling some strings in this matter. I'm not naive. I know how these things go. One way or the other, we're gonna have our hand in the pie because of our business and geographic interests. Still, I have misgivings about jacking around in Latin/Central America. George Bush helped create this monster called Noriega, then when the guy got out of (our) control, we sent in a s***load of troops and gunships....killed a bunch of civilians, for God's sake, many of whom were Noriega's opponents...all to catch the CIA's least-favored dope-dealing scumbag dictator. And maybe pin a few parachute wings on the chests of some of our soldiers in the process. Granted, we have done nothing of that sort in Venezuela (as indicated in Rimbaud's last post), but I just mention the heavy hand we often wield in these matters.
Actually, Houston is still a Democratic city by the numbers. Gore actually carried Houston with 50.1 percent of the vote and that was without a particularly strong minority turnout who vote overwhelmingly Democrat. Harris County is a Republican stronghold, but within the city limits, you're in Dixie-crat territory.
Originally posted by ROXTXIA Glynch, where do you live geographically? If you're in Houston, I salute you. It takes balls to be a Democrat in Houston. When I lived there, I felt really out of place. I joked that I might start a new club: The White Male Heterosexual Democrats of Houston. But the club would probably fail for lack of membership. Roxtia, you and Jeff are both right. It is rare to find a white heterosexual male Democrat in Houston, especially outside the loop on the westside of town. (I'd guess less than 10%) Even where I live (and it is within 2 miles of Jeff, in Houston, though my location is secret for security purposes, but now that treeman is off somewhere I am willing to divulge more details....) I have had neighbors that just assume that since I'm a nice normal looking middle age guy with a nice home that I must be Repulbican. However, after I left my Gore yard sign up even a a few days after the Supreme Court inaugarated Bush, some of them probably found out my deep secret. With Houston on its way to becoming majority hispanic and african american ,with us the few the proud the liberal Anglos, the Repubs are enjoying their high water mark locally. Roxtia, dimsie and all the others please stay or return to Houston we need to combat this stereotype (unfortunately largely true that all Anglos are Republicans). Actually in reality I've found that just like many racists make exceptions and have a few african american friends "but he's a good one". they make exceptions for me "he's a liberal, commie, pinko,socialist etc. but he is a "good one". I myself am not prejudiced either as I have a couple of friends that are Republicans and members of conservative Christian Churchs, "but they are good ones" too.
Chavez may have technically been 'democratically elected.' His actions thereafter, however, have been anything but in accord with the precepts of democracy. Anybody who opposes this coup would have to have a complete disregard for the welfare of the Venezuelan people.
Anybody who opposes this coup would have to have a complete disregard for the welfare of the Venezuelan people. So you think if Bush goes nuts, the proper response here in the US is a military coup?
Buying an airbus for himself instead of helping his people, almost singlehandedly putting Venezuela on the brink of economic failure, transforming into a despot while in office, suppressing peaceful protests by hiring thugs to use scare tactics (ie: car bombs)........ah yes, Chavez certainly is the Platonic conception of democracy. I would hope that, regardless of the political system, if an entire nation was against an 'elected' leader that something could be done to remove them from power, whether by force or not. Do you actually think that the US instigated this coup? Having been to Venezuela quite frequently, I'm not sure you understand how strong the hate and discontent among the people actually is towards Chavez. An uprising of this magnitude was inevitable.
Buying an airbus for himself instead of helping his people, almost singlehandedly putting Venezuela on the brink of economic failure, transforming into a despot while in office, suppressing peaceful protests by hiring thugs to use scare tactics (ie: car bombs)........ah yes, Chavez certainly is the Platonic conception of democracy. You'd think these things are illegal, in which case, they could arrest this guy. If not, then they should make them illegal. I would hope that, regardless of the political system, if an entire nation was against an 'elected' leader that something could be done to remove them from power, whether by force or not. Here in the US, I would think impeachment would be one way to go. Congress vetoing every single thing the President did would be another. Regardless, a coup is not really the solution here. Especially not one that gets reversed after 48 hours. If these kinds of options aren't available to Venezuelans, they might need to look into redoing their Constitution to include some sort of checks & balances system. Do you actually think that the US instigated this coup? I don't know, which is why I prefaced the original comments with "if this is true". The article paints a picture that, while not instigating the coup, the US certainly assisted in it: Reich is said by OAS sources to have had 'a number of meetings with Carmona and other leaders of the coup' over several months. The coup was discussed in some detail, right down to its timing and chances of success, which were deemed to be excellent.
