Well at least you admit that the whole left handed layup bit is completely bogus..... TB is going to be a decent backup PG, and is already a much better defender then Mooch. We need front court help, and if a team like the Clippers wants the number 5 pick and the mooch in a sign and trade for Olawakandi...I would do it in a heartbeat. DaDakota
figures...you would not only try to save face, but shove it in my face. Who else around here likes to do that...hmmmm. Glad I got you to pay attention. So, did you see him later give up the easy left to go under the basket and flip it over his head with his right, too, exposing the ball to give help defense other crack at him, carelessly. What was that Tierre? Tierre has a problem. Maybe it is jumping with he left foot leading, which he didn't do on the scoop...(that had no jump, just a scoop from the ground). Do you have that problem jumping off a left foot, preventing comfortable left-handed layups. I do. I can shoot left scoops, but my left leg doesn't want to cooperate by jumping. I am competely right-sided with my legs. I have to practice jumping with my left. Tierre seems to be hiding that problem, too. To me, it is comical. I like to spot these things and then count them. We laugh everytime he shoots a right hander from the left side. How many times have you spotted that. There is a good chance he loses his job based on a draft, especially if we keep the #15. Better than Moochie because of his defense?? Yeah, and Morris is better than Langhi because of his defense. Oh no, that's right...Langhi is better than Morris, because you like him. What is it you called yourself? The BBS Pragmatist? Was that it? Then why do you always talk by protecting your opinions so closely? It's OK to say you saw a weird, unnecessary right-handed layup by Tierre. Especially that break-away to tie the cc.net Memphis game when it nearly got blocked, because he let the defender catch up. And it is OK to say Langhi has not lived up to your expectations. "He will be a star." We won't laugh at you.
Crispee, There is more to basketball then being analytical. You certainly are the type that can analyze things, but that and a quarter and you can make a phone call. Does it suprise you to learn that Alex English jumped off the wrong foot...ALL THE TIME, or that Larry Bird had terrible form? Or that Hakeem shot the ball with 2 hands for most of his career. You see, it is not about doing it "TECHNICALLY" correct, it is simply about GETTING IT DONE !!! Plenty of players use the right hand on the left side of the glass including Steve. Of course I am going to point out when you are wrong, because you seem to come off as someone who has a holier then thou attitude. I think you analyze fine, but I doubt your ability to see beyond the technical aspects and see the pure basketball talent. As for Langhi, he will be a good player, but not in Houston, where he has ZERO chance to touch the ball. DaDakota PS..Come to think of it ...you can't even make a call with a quarter anymore....
what is the difference between scouting and seeing pure basketball talent? I don't get that whole point there. DaDakota, don't change the subject. Don't mention Larry as an example of doing things the wrong way...that's silly...he is the epitome of perfect mechanics. Let's talk about why the coaches give the ball to Moohie as the backup, and the Milwaukee scouts picked him 33rd in the 1996 draft, and all the scouts who passed on Tierre in the draft. Moochie has a "pure basketball talent" or knack for making layups and scoops for all over the place. That allows him to draw defenses, which makes dishing easier. He needs to improve for sure, but don't take that "pure basketball talent" and a knack for "GETTING IT DONE" (as you put it) away from Moochie. Give him the respect for that. Given a choice betwee a natural left hand layup versus jumping of your right foot and using your back to shield that handicap...every coach and scout is taking the natural left...and so is Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, John Stockton...but not Tierre, apparently. Is it a problem, that will effect his dishing ability when he gets more consistent minutes. I don't know. But if I'm a help defender, I'd prefer Tierre not take the natural left. what are you going to take. I'm taking Moochie. Best passer on the team, despite his dribbling. imo, the odds of Moochie learning to make quicker reads are higher than Tierre learning to hit Moochie's plethora of layups to draw the defense and open passing lanes. Those Moochie layups are an art...they help beyond you dismissing the analytics of it all, by implying one can do it without a natural left, just because Hakeem shot with 2 hands.
Maybe there's a reason Moochie was the 33rd pick in the'96 draft? And maybe there's a reason Moochie needed to hone his skills in the CBA and foreign countries? I am going to refrain from getting involved in a pretzel logic analysis of Tierre Brown's current skill level and just make a simplistic statement: The Rockets are a good enough team to make the playoffs with Tierre Brown as a 14-18 mpg backup point guard. If he is proven to be unable to do the job at a high enough skill level, there is an adequate supply of PG's available (NBDL, Europe, signed short-term aging vet) who could perform the function adequately. Or even going to a point forward like Qyntel Woods or Dunleavy, Jr. to take pressure of the point (which helps Steve as well).
You left off my first point that maybe there is a reason the coaches use him before Tierre. It is not because Boylen is an idiot. It is because he does things that Matt Maloney and Bryce Drew couldn't do, penetrate and dish and hit those crazy ass Avery Johnson layups from all angles. He is the best at it that the Rockets have had in a while. I'm so down for having a backup that can do that. We don't need pretzel logic to inflate Tierre and Langhi to be better than they are. We just need Puedlfor logic: Moochie > Tierre Morris > Langhi That said, I agree 100% with Gater. Tierre is dime a dozen, and we can make the playoffs with or without him. Same with Moochie. Threads that inflate the Injured Reserve class players to prove some pet peeve are annoying.
Oooh! Oooh! I've got one, too!! "I said it before and I'll say it again: Marcus Fizer will be the best player in his draft class." Say it again, please.
I still believe in Fizer...and since next year is his 3rd it will be the most telling year for him. I don't back down and will freely admit it when I am wrong. HP/Crispee just said that TB could not hit a left handed layup, and therefore he was not very good....and then what happens? TB hits a left handed layup, and rather then say...hmmm..TB must have grown as a player, he switches gears and decides to talk about Langhi or Tmo....to cover his tracks...pathetic. For the record...BIRD shot the ball with a side ways spin, horrible looking shot, great result. Bird injured his hand in a softball accident after his rookie year and had to completly change his shot. Now...my point about Langhi etc...is that we can not truly know whether or not Langhi is any good if he NEVER...and I repeat...NEVER touches the darned basketball in a situation in which he can succeed. The point of this thread is that TB brings better defense and better fast break gamesmanship and thus would be better as a backup PG then Mooch for this team. Mooch can play, no doubt, but he is not a core member of the future, I would trade him to get a better frontcourt. As for why coaches use them, heck coaches make mistakes too....and I would say playing a 3 guard lineup and not FORCING Francis and Cat to pass the ball is one glaring weakness in our coaching staff's abilities. And don't even get me started on defense..... DaDakota
Hey DaDa What's truly pathetic is that you still have a slim shot of being right about Fizer--that's how bad that draft class has been. Makes you wonder about whether you could flip-flop the top 10 of that class with #s 10-20 and see if anybody would be able to tell the difference. You could argue that Magloire, Mason, Richardson et al have all contributed just as much as Miller, Swift, Fizer and Mihm. Back to the point of the thread, I think you do jump on players' jocks too swiftly, DaDa...yeah Tierre has looked halfway decent when he gets some PT, but I don't think you can just extrapolate that into fitting him in the long-term. Melvin Booker had some good games with the Rockets. Elmer Bennett had some good games. Henry James had some... Larry Robinson did... Joe Stephens did... Tracey Moore, too... Backups in the NBA are not always playing for the 'team.' It's hard to juggle because they have their own agenda, too, and when they get out there, they BUST THEIR ASS. When marginal players get content, they find themselves on the outside again. But not with Moochie...I don't think he ever was a marginal player, I just think he got a few bad breaks along the way. When you have a known commodity as your backup PG locked up for a while, I think that's pretty valuable. Of course he has his shortcomings--if he didn't he'd be MJ, but I think it's a better alternative than rolling the dice with guys that you don't know will be able to produce consistently.
Prem, The main crux of my argument is that TB brings a different STYLE of play then Mooch, and IMHO, that is what I think the Rockets need from a backup PG. Think of how much better TMO or OT look when they are on the break? That up tempo style of game would have been like throwing a changeup to the other team. If the left one doesn't get you the right one will.....right now the Rockets are all one handed...or one styled so to speak. Mooch and Steve play essentially the same game.... I would rather keep TB as the backup, and trade Mooch while he has some value to other teams....package him and the number 5 pick for Mike Olawokandi.... DaDakota
Dada, I totally agree with you. In fact, this year, when we were at our best, it was in games where we ran the ball. Everytime. I am not sure if Moochie and Wink ran less because of Rudy not letting them while he let TB run loose. I did notice that in the Denver game it appeared that he was trying to bring some structure to the game and TB struggled. The beauty about TB is that he gets in the lane almost as easily as any of the more senior pgs.
DaDakota goes for the jugular, and calls people pathetic, even though I was just discussing the 6 foot scoop and I totally offered him that for discussion...and he calls that "pathetic." Can we talk at all dude???? DaDakota is merely worried that someone else knows he is a better scout that you. Give it up man. You will never convince that you are a better scout until you quit making excuses for Fizer and Langhi and how they are no where close to your outragious proclamations, much less Tierre, who will be cut. All that is pathetic. Back off these damn threads of proclamations and I'll agree with you more. Until then, Tierre has a problem with a lefthander and you just can't see it, or are too busy yelling at Rudy and typing up new BBS threads. Fizer ROCKS...yeah right. Tell me more DaD.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/bk/bkn/1372182 Look what TB had to say about the Denver game. ...Though Tuesday's 101-70 loss at Denver was far too great to blame on any individual, Brown blamed himself for the Rockets' collapse. "I made careless plays with the ball and turned the ball over. I did it," he said. "Then the other guys did it, and the game opened up from there. But it started with me." Man.....has Steve Francis ever taken the blame? He sure has blamed the bench, his foot, his shoulder, and who knows what else..but has he ever said....that HE STUNK? I think TB is already a smarter/headier player then any of the other Rocket guards. DaDakota
"3-17 is just not going to get it done. That is horrible." --anonymous, although from what I hear he wears number 3. That was his rookie year, too. Not an exact quote of course, but I do remember him saying something to that effect. DaDa, you are seriously reaching here...Tierre is the headiest guard we have??? Dude can take all the blame he wants--nobody cares and that's why that game was such an abortion. He was probably one of very few who gave a damn, and that's no indicator of the guy's heart--it's an indication that he wants to have a job next year, because that's not guaranteed. If Rudy and CD made all their personnel moves based on garbage time, we'd have a starting lineup of: C: Dwayne Schintzius PF: Mario Bennett SF: Lamond Murray SG: Voshon Lenard PG: Lindsay Hunter Um...okay...do you like...remember that time on that show about the NBDL scrubs...when like...that dude...Galen Young...he made that...that shot...and it went in the bucket??? Dude is going to the HOF!!! That's a reach right? Well not by your logic.
I have no problem with trading Mooch to try and find a different style of pg. but Tierre Brown ain't that dude. TB would be lucky to be on the IR for next season, let alone get any playing time.
Prem, When I say headiest guard on the Rockets, believe me when I say... "That ain't saying much" DaDakota
me thinx some of u guys need to lay off of MoT's secret stash. Tierre better than Mooch? HA that's funny. lol. Mooch is the only pass first shoot second guard we've got. (or is it dribble first, dribble second, dribble third, pass fourth, dribble fifth, shoot sixth...dribble some more). Reguardless of all the dribbling he does he is still the best backup we got...besides the rockets shouldn't be focusing on offense...they should worry bout interior defense and redounding. something Mooch has no control over.
Maybe Mooch is a product of the system, and Tierre is a victim of the system? It's possible. If we stop going to the 3-guard line-up, there will be 8 minutes at the PG position to spare. I'd rather have Tierre playing those 8 minutes than Moochie, because the extra $3M just wouldn't be worth it. Heypartner, if Tierre worked on his left-side problem, would he then be a better backup PG than Mooch? I think so.
Simple stated: Moochie is the better point guard. He has better chemistry and passing ability. He is also overpaid for a backup point guard. Brown would do an okay job in the minimal minutes that our backup point guard should get. Moochie would do a better job, but it would a make a minimal difference in the outcome of the game. So Brown would be the better choice.
Who would trade for a backup point guard that makes nearly 4M a season? The Mavs> I guess they will get rid of Van Exel and pick up Norris.
