Nothing will make the Rockets better unless...

The teammates might have a better shot if they weren't out on the 3 point line for "spacing" reasons.

 

All I can say is look at Clevland. Andre Miller's about as close to Jason Kidd as you can get. He's not surrounded by a lot of talent and look at the results. Switch those two players, and I think the Nets are still good and the Cavs still suck.

And I'm sorry its hard for me to see TMO or Torres ever thriving. Maybe Torres in a couple of years, but definitely not this year. Besides, I never really regarded TMO as being fast. Kerry Kittles, Richard Jefferson, and Kenyon Martin are three of the fastest players in the entire league at their respective positions. Now THAT is a fastbreak team.

 

So true about the Celtics. They weren't very quick and ran a great fast break. Rudy and CD should force Steve and company to watch tapes of those teams. Wouldn't be a bad refresher for the staff, either.

 

We're a pretty crap team anyway, when Francis and Mobley go into ballhog mode. It's obvious that Francis and Mobley figure that if we're gonna suck, we're gonna suck with Francis and Mobley getting a lot of shots. That is selfish as hell.

 

Like I said, I look at the Cavs failing in the miserable eastern conference, and that's what I compare it to. I wouldn't see the Rockets being much better than the Cavliers. You're basing the Rockets improvement on Torres and Morris get more opportunities to score. I'm sorry I think that's reaching. Those two guys would not even play this season on a good NBA team. Anyways, Torres seems to have missed more than his fair share of layups this season. I wouldn't say he's a great finishier. And TMO certainly hasn't proven to me that he's a great finisher either. Definitely not even comparable to someone like Kenyon Martin or Kerry Kittles.

 

I'm with RocketRiver...I think the answer to complete the sentence that is the title of this thread is.....

DEFENSE!!!!

 

Ya'll DCkid is dead on for one point. Miller is the next closest thing to JK, Cleveland has a better front court than us, and we still only finished 1 game behind them in a stronger conference with far more injuries.

JK right now is a better player than Francis, but I don't think he could do much more with the team than a healthy Franchise could and has what been in the league 6-7 more years? JK wasn't the player he is today at Franchise's stage--JK was like a 12PPG scorer with similar TOs (though admittedly more assists) who had terrible range for an NBA guard. JK needed to develop his own offense to at least keep teams honest in guarding him (true for Payton as well). While the issue for Franchise is different--more like Iverson's, learning to use his explosiveness to get other people easy shots and recognizing defenses--like Iverson or Payton or Kidd there is no reason he can't improve on his main weaknesses as these other players did over time. Actually of these 4 guys, Franchise is behind developing an all-around game only 1 of them at the comparable stage--Iverson (pretty sick that in AI's rookie year he averaged 23.5 points, 7.5 assists and 4.1 rebounds).

That said I would love to have Franchise press the defense on breaks like Kidd and Miller do. Then again those two guys would kill for Franchise's combination of hops and shooting ability.

 

Dakota, if you think that there is no difference between Kidd running a fast break with Martin and Kittles as compared to running a fast break with Morris and Torres, then I don't know what to tell you. Kidd has even said its pretty easy playing with Kenyon Martin because all he has to do is throw the ball up in the general vicinity of the basket and he'll go up and get it. That is where being a good finisher comes into play. Not every fast break leads to a wide open lay up as you would have us believe. And if you think that being <b>fast</b> has absolutely nothing to do with a <b>fast</b> break, I don't what to tell you about that either.

 

DaDakota,

I don't agree with you, although I agree Steve and Cuttino don't pass enough.

I want to answer the question of why don't they pass enough, first. I don't think I can answer this myself.

Here are some of the possibilities. None or all may be true. I'm just throwing them out there to state them outright for reference:
1. They're selfish.
2. They're stupid.
3. The surrounding talent doesn't merit the passing to, either from quality or injury--i.e. there's no trust in the teammates for good reason, as opposed to reasons 1 and 2 which means there's no trust in the teammates for bad reasons.
4. Rudy is a $hitty playmaker.
5. The system is too new and/or the Rockets sustained too many injuries in the small amount of time they had to learn it.
6. The system is too complicated to be picked up quickly or by the players we have. ALSO, The system won't work because it doesn't match the personnel we have (physically or mentally).
7. They gave up as the season went on cutting short any continuing improvement.
8. They're young (and don't have either enough experience or enough veteran/coaching presence to help them).
9. Rudy is not a good coach for young players.

I'm sure there are others or some of these could be combined, stated differently or elaborated on.

That said, I really think that our system is too difficult at this point in the careers of Steve and Cuttino. Maybe they could pick it up or other factors like fewer injuries and better surrounding personnel would improve the execution. But at this point, it's not working.

I think Rudy tried to make the system easier for them, even making it more boring. It could be that Rudy realized the system wasn't going to work but that it was impossible to change during the season. Besides, one season is barely enough time to implement and learn a new system.

Personally, I wouldn't mind getting a tall small forward, for example, to take more of a playmaking role and utilize Francis' versatility and overall game. Let Steve be point guard but also let him play off of a good playmaking/passing teammate for cuts, dunks, etc. Odom comes to mind, but I don't know enough about him to say for sure. Ming could be a possibility (if he would play for us), but he's also unknown. I don't believe he would have to play center, though, to be a huge asset.

No matter what happens, I believe the offense has to change to incorporate more passing, and I would change it by bringing in a highly capable passer in a spot other than guard to become more of a focus in playmaking.

 

That statement by Kidd is just another example of how he gets the most out of his teammates. If Martin was all that around the rim, he'd easily have a higher shooting % than Kenny Thomas...he doesn't.

I can't prove it statistically, but my opinion is that at 6'11" with hops from hell, Dan Langhi can finish as good as Kerry Kittles. Kittles missed all of last season and that Nets feel very lucky his injury didn't turn him into another Jayson Williams situation.

I don't follow the Nets much so I really can't say how fast Keith Van Horn is.

I do watch alot of the Kings who are 2nd to the Nets in fastreak points. Would you like to tell us what great speed and finishing abilities the Kings have...let's see...Peja...Hedo...Vlade...Christie...Pollard...Webber...Funderburke...yup, looks like a track team to me.

I will not be so brazen as to tell you that speed has nothing to do with it, but there are decades of examples of great fastbreak teams which had players like Heinsohn, Nelson, Havlicek, Bird, Cedrick Maxwell, McHale and legions more who did not need to leap thru the ceiling or have sprinters' speed to be successful. In fact, the coach of the Nets Byron Scott was part of the Showtime Lakers who (with the exception of James Worthy) were good but not exceptional at finishing (Magic MADE them better) and possesed average to good footspeed.

My closing quips:

1) Fastbreak ball is not about speed - it's about defense, outlet passes and a commitment to run... and share the ball.

2) The Cleveland Cavaliers are NOT by any stretch of the imagination a fastbreak team. They rank #20 in fastbreak points compared to the Rockets at 26th.

3) Dan Langhi has a higher FG% than Jason Kidd.

4) To those people who propose that Steve and Cuttino should keep taking all of the shots because they have no shooters around them - I'll bet the other Rockets players would all have much higher FG%'s if they got the ball in a comfort zone and in a rhythm instead of standing at the 3 pt line (or other ackward positions) with the 24 second clock expiring.

I have League Pass and viewed all of probably 75 Rockets games. I did not hear the announcers even once use the term GIVE AND GO during a Rockets offensive set. This is not a difficult play...it's a mindset.

"Passing encourages chemistry" - TNT announcer John Thompson during a Kings recent 20 point blow out of the TWolves.

 

Andre Miller is nothing near Jason Kidd, that's why DCKid's exaple is flawed. His numbers are the result of a system built by Lucas to maximize the effectiveness of his spot-up shooters (Person, Murray). The Nets would NOT be as good as they are if they swapped Kidd with Miller. In fact, the Nets would laugh in the face of that proposal, despite how you Miller is. Miller is good, but not Kidd-good. Not Payton good. Not even Francis good.


I do believe, though, to fix the problem, we have to acquire Lamar Odom. He'll run the fastbreak, he'll handle the ball, he'll let Steve be more of a SG alongside full-time SG Mobley. Speed does NOT have anything to do with fast breaks, well, maybe just BARELY anything.

Points:

Rudy is definitely NOT a young team's coach.

Odom, or any other SF ballhandler, is needed.

Kidd for Miller swap would improve the Cavs big-time but kill the Nets.

 

All I can say is believe me...Kenyon is definitely <i>all that</i> around the rim. The fact that Kenny's field goal percentage is better than Kenny's just means he makes more of his shots. I don't see what it has to do with Kenyon's ability to finish the break.

Well, I don't know how hard Langhi would take the ball to the rim, but I think was makes Kittles so good on the fast break is he is a gazelle. Even in not-so-fast break situations Kittle slips by his man a lot with Kidd giving him a unbelievable bounce pass through the seam. It helps to have players that cut to the basket. The only player on the Rockets who cuts to the basket, believe it or not, is Kelvin Cato. And when he does Steve usually rewards him with a dunk.

I would say that just about all those players have excellent touch around the basket, as well as excellent hands. Having goods hands is very important. And yes, Vlade, Pollard, and Webber run very well for big men. Christie is much like Kittles, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was a track star. Besides I never mentioned that speed is ALL of it. The most important thing is forcing turnovers and catching the other team out of position, since that's how most fastbreaks start in the first place.

Exactly! You are proving my point. The whole reason I brought that up was that I was trying to prove that having a good passing point guard does not neccesairly make a fastbreak team. The players surrounding that point guard who are going to be on the receiving end are just as important. That is why I don't think simply moving a Jason Kidd or an Andre Miller into the Rockets would all of the sudden make them a great fastbreak team.

This is the whole basis of my argument. A team with a true point guard is not going to succeed unless that point guard has capable teammates to pass the ball to. I do not believe the Rockets have that at this point in time, just like the Cavaliers do not have it. If they do end up with some good players surrounding Steve and Cuttino, and they STILL don't pass the ball and their teammates still do not move without the ball. That is when I will agree that there is a serious problem.

That would not surprise me one bit.

I definitely agree with you on this. But that is either their fault for not moving or Rudy's fault for telling them to stand at the 3-point line. I have a feeling its a combination of both.

Can't argue with that.

 

I wasn't suggesting that Miller was better than Kidd...yet. I think I just said he is the closest thing. Can you argue with that? Obviously they run different types of offenses. But Miller averaged more assists per game this season than Kidd has averaged any season during his entire career. Miller doesn't turn the ball over as much. He chooses his shots a lot better, which leads to a much better field goal percentage. And even while getting more assists and being more careful on his shots, he manages to score more points per game. I'm sorry but I think Miller and Kidd are a lot closer than you think. There are definitely some intangibles that Kidd possesses over Andre right now, but I would say they are very close to being equal in talent.

 

I'd agree that Miller is the closest thing to Kidd right now(well, other than GP, cept he can score, hehe).

Miller pushes it and hands out some nice assists. He's always got his motor runnin.

Kidd is still way better at this point though, obviously.