1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

According to +/- stats Artest and Yao are the best duo on the team

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Tmacfan0115, Dec 26, 2008.

  1. Tmacfan0115

    Tmacfan0115 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    0
  2. rox4lyf

    rox4lyf Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,944
    Likes Received:
    263
    at least the big 3 is up there as well. Just gotta get Tracy healthy. In years past, Tracy was always part of the trio that got the highest +/- stat.
     
  3. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,132
    Bring Tracy off the bench.
     
  4. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,153
    Likes Received:
    21,575
    +/- doesn't tell you who is the best player, or the best duo, as a matter of intrinsic fact. It tells you which combination has performed better than others so far this year, and raises the questions as to why it has been so, and whether the coaches should play certain combinations more.

    There are, of course, other factors out there... if you think McGrady will recover with time, and the team needs him to succeed in playoffs, you'd play him now even through his struggles to integrate the team.

    I think we are going to see a lot of Yao/McGrady/Artest/Battier/Alston(or Brooks) 5-man combos in tight games. Adelman has been trying this lineup out recently (now that McGrady, Battier and Artest are all healthy) and seems to be having some success.
     
  5. kkkpopov

    kkkpopov Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    0
    the post make some sense
     
  6. kkkpopov

    kkkpopov Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    0
    Player 1 Player 2 Team + - +/- Min +/- /Min G

    L. James D. West Cavaliers 1,950 -1,649 301 882:16 .341
    D. Fisher K. Bryant Lakers 1,860 -1,650 210 821:15 .255
    D. West C. Paul Hornets 1,807 -1,610 197 845:09 .233

    they are even higher
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    and this is real big 3

    Player 1 Player 2 Team + - +/- Min +/- /Min G

    K. Garnett R. Allen Celtics 1,745 -1,499 246 795:02 .309
    R. Allen P. Pierce Celtics 1,666 -1,450 216 766:47 .281
    R. Allen K. Perkins Celtics 1,634 -1,426 208 744:33 .279
    K. Garnett P. Pierce Celtics 1,663 -1,464 199 772:02 .257
     
  7. J.Will.Xu

    J.Will.Xu Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    7
    I'd rather have him rest his sore knee than sit him on the bench as our sixth man.

    He's nowhere near his old form and he's NOT effective and productive at all. :eek: I'm downloading the game between Mavpricks and Rockets on December 2nd 2004,it's a shootout between Dirk and T-Mac,who combined for 101 points.That's the MAC we want.Hope he will bounce back from his ******* injury and be fierce.
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,312
    Likes Received:
    39,859
    The funny thing about plus minus is that it doesn't consider who you are playing against.

    A decent stat that WAY to much can be read into...

    DD
     
  9. Jeff Who

    Jeff Who Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    41
    What? he is PRODUCTIVE. He does what it takes to win games.

    I understand he has a HORRIBLE game against Cavs, but since comming back he's been helping the team averaging like 20/7/7. T-Mac will not be what he was once in his carrer and he doesn't need to.

    Why we brought Artest in here? For Tracy and Yao, to make them do less things. T-Mac doesn't have to score that much.

    Yeah, it was a great game but wait a minute, the Rockets LOST. Well, we've been losing for a LONG TIME. Aren't you tired about it? I am. And that's it. This team doesn't need 40 points from T-Mac, it damn needs some WINS, big wins.
     
  10. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    26,497
    Likes Received:
    16,856
    Artest and Yao are the 12th best +/- per min and are first in +/- due to playing together 20% more than any other combination that I could see. One could say it is easy to see who Adelman thinks should be on the court the most. Shane and McGrady are top in +/- per min, buit have played only 80 minutes together so far.
     
  11. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    26,614
    Likes Received:
    211
    that combo is underrated. there's a reason we're playing much better since those 2 have played together. just gotta get healthier.

    when they both struggled (v. clips and cavs), we have lost our last 2 games.
     
  12. J.Will.Xu

    J.Will.Xu Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    7
    A'ight,I made a mistake that he's been PRODUCTIVE so far this season,I just checked 'em out.He shot better than ever from both the field and free throw line.I was not bashing T-Mac fo' sho .

    I watched him play bball since he was traded from Toronto to Orlando and he'd done great job individually in Orlando but set a worst team record ever in Orlando history if I remember correct.I like how he attacks the rim and takes over the game when needed,but look at what his condition is right now.I just felt a little bit frustrated so far this season at T-Mac's performance on the floor.Admittedly,he's done enough to help Rockets to win,but how in God's name could he just vanish in the dust and pull a no-show in the statement game?I don't blame him,as a die hard tmac fan,I just expect more out of him.

    Well,I knew it was a LOSS long time ago,the reason why I download this is to remind me that the Old Mac to the rack and can step up when nobody's able to score for the shorthanded rockets at that time.

    Actually I hate the Mavpricks the most,it's why I need this one to grow more hatreds toward em before the next meeting between Rockets and Mavpricks.I hope we could beat the crap out of 'em! :p
     
  13. Jeff Who

    Jeff Who Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    41
    You do expect something more from T-Mac.

    The beggining of the season pretty much killed his statistics a little bit. I am still saying he should have sat the start of the season.

    But T-Mac will be fine. Once the team finds its identify he will play better.

    T-Mac's time is playoffs. That is what he cares about.
     
  14. Tmacfan0115

    Tmacfan0115 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    0
    T-Mac should just rest more..... He obviously is not ready STILL.
     
  15. KALIKULI

    KALIKULI Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2000
    Messages:
    2,613
    Likes Received:
    16
  16. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 1999
    Messages:
    22,950
    Likes Received:
    33,698
    Unless I'm crazy, that is pretty useless the way it's sorted (by raw +/-). It's telling you which 3-player combo has the most positive points when it's in, but it's not a number that takes into consideration minutes played.

    For example, Yao-Artest-Rafer are tops at +135, but that's in 444+ minutes played.

    But Yao, T-Mac and Battier are at +78 in 129+ minutes. Not that you could for a variety of reasons (small sample size, different opponents), but if they continued at that rate they would be something like +268 in the same number of minutes that Yao-Artest-Rafer have played together.

    I read this list of combinations and have more respect for Shane Battier, to be honest.
     
  17. Tmacfan0115

    Tmacfan0115 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not a big of fan of +/- either, especially in terms of how their teams systems work

    But since they all play in Houston It shows each person's values.

    It also shows if they are capable of not just scoring but also being able to stop them from scoring.
     
  18. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    26,614
    Likes Received:
    211
    the last game was his first really bad game since he has returned. so he has played fine. he's not ready yet for primetime, but he's improving game by game.

    the leg just needs strengthening (not an injury). so let him rest when we have a brutal schedule that's all.
     

Share This Page