Thank you Timing!! I really don't care if you disagree with me or not Crispee, but you seem to have trouble having a discussion, as opposed to a pissing match. Tell me specific instances where Mobley made plays at the end of a game, which would negate everything I've said thus far. You're only response is that I'm overeggerating. Fine, prove it to me. Until you can PROVE that I'm wrong, just saying that I'm wrong is a waste of time.
There is no player on this present incarnation of the Rockets that I would rather have creating his own shot on the final play other than Mobes. I'm hoping Griffin develops an inside game so that he will be our clutch iso guy, but right now the best at that on the team is Mobley, imho.
As for plays with 3 seconds left. Why can't we set any picks to free up an outside shooter? When we had Olajuwon, we could always rely on him, because he would get "his" kind of shot downlow, the baseline Dreamshake. However, I remember one time, I think this was when Rudy first took over back in 92. We were down by 1 or so against the Kings, and Spud Webb was on the Kings at the time. Rudy called for Kenny Smith to set a pick for Olajuwon before the ball was in-bounds from halfcourt. Because Kenny set the pick, the the Kings were forced to switch on the pick, and that left the 5 ft 7 Webb against Olajuwon. So, we simply tossed a lob to him, that he alley-ooped. Of course, Olajuwon was one of the greatest players ever, but that was an ingenius play that Rudy drew up. Personally I'd rather have Francis taking the last shot, and here's why. When Francis takes his 20 ft jumpers, they are when he has a decent amount of space in front of him, and he's not fading away, ala the Jazz game earlier this year. Francis' slashing skills is respected by his opponent much more than Mobley's, so Francis will have much more breathing room to get a 20 ft jumper off. I know Francis doesn't have the killer instinct like Cat does, but killer instincts don't hit big shots alone. For some reason, Cat can't ever get any space from his defender in late situations. And as a result, ends up hoisting the 20 ft FADEAWAYS that are low percentage. Especially when you consider the man guarding him is often times 2-3 inches taller.
Yeah I don't want to put all the blame on Mobley either. This is the whole team having this trouble getting a good look out of a timeout. Is our team really that poor at executing what Rudy wants or is Rudy allowing his players too much freedom in those situations?
Possibly... But part of being a great go-go guy is being able to recognize open shooters who have a better chance of converting. MJ, is probably the greatest clutch player ever, however there were several times in which he deferred the shot to the open guy, namely Kerr in the 97 Finals. Part of being a go-to guy in the clutch is getting the TEAM the best available shot, not just for himself. I too, hope Griffin can develop a low post game, so that we can rely on him to get some decent 10 ft or in shots at the last second.
Very true. I think both Mobes and Francis need to work on setting up others and trusting their teamates if we are ever going to be truly successful. I know they don't have a lot to work with some nights, but great players make even scrubs seem like decent players at times, esp great pgs. It's cool that they want to take shots, but it would be cooler if they wanted to mke high percentage plays instead. I think they can be awesome playmakers, not just scorers and stat guys. It's got to happen sooner or later right?
Hopefully it will... I will defend Mobley somewhat, as our offense lacks any kind of motion, that defenses are able to trap him at will, and not have to worry about getting burned, because they know where the other 4 players will be. If we had an offense that had any kind of movement away from the ball, it would be MUCH harder for other teams to trap Francis or Mobley. And this thread might not even have been created...
I have heard NBA broadcasters frequently mention that the most dangerous man during last second shot scenarios is the man inbounding the ball. If the Rockets really want Cuttino taking the shot, maybe Cat should be the man inbounding the ball. I know it's possible to have a taller player guard him (like Bradley or La Frentz or even Najera) but this also creates lob passes near the basket for KT or EG with an undersized player on them. And if there is enough time for a pass back, Cat is quicker than the inbound defender and can run to a spot before a double team can form. kidrock8 - don't waste your time or energy debating the pro and con of Cuttino's game with heypartner/crispee. He/she/they have over 10,000 posts and I'll bet you can't find one critique of Mobley. Crispee/heypartner is a highly intelligent fan, an enlightened poster, and a valued CC.NET member but has this unusuall quirk regarding Cat. (Kind of like Joel Myers and "Jesus" Parker).
Alot of you sit here and b*tch like a bunch of girls....we won the game....Mobley has won games for us this season with some clutch shots....so he gets the ball at the end and shoots it, big deal, if he would have made it....you would be sitting hear talking soo good about him.....
GATER, I think I was debating the merits of kidrock8's exaggerations and Timing implying 3 second plays in the NBA often have passing complexity to find an open man and how we could have got Langhi wide open. Where was I debating Mobley at all. I thought I was trying to draw up that play via the keyboard...no??? As for critiquing Mobley: he is a contrived passer and bone-headed. He messes up timing of some plays, and has no tempo to help the team develop the offenses that I like. I've said this several times. Difference is: I believe in more of his shots than others who say that's a "tough shot." It's weird. I'll sit there watching many a game and say, wow, nice separation,,,nail it!!! Come to the bbs and see..."what a stupid shot." It is almost comical how 99% of those responding will hate a shot while the first thing that I thought was...take it!!! Anger is not the right word. I sigh, knowing yet again I won't find anyone who like such and such shot. Tough game winners are lovely to discuss. I often come to the bbs looking to discuss why I loved Mobley's shot, envy the shot, and would have shot that myself. I just think many people don't realize how many stars in this league can't get separation for last second shots....I mean, Francis can't. I just get disappointed many a time that there is no one to discuss why I love such and such shot we got off. What I hate is busted plays. When we try to get fancy in the end, we often don't even get up a shot. I'd rather Mobley learn from reps. He needs to improve on how to feel his man and know when to drive, change direction, step back, and I'm pretty settled on the fact that he moves too fast to have great court vision. If you really want to run one a complicated play, its going to have to be a different player. I want Mobley to focus on the rim and feel their defender like shooters do. You asked for my general critique of Mobley. Now, can discuss the Topic. This thread is about THIS final shot, no? What does that shot have anything to do with plays with more that 7 seconds on the clock to execute. Do you really think give and go to the Mobley as an inbounder will fool anyone? Do you really see Francis execute more than frantic spins to the basket when he runs the last second 24 high? To me, it all boils down to this team's need for simplicity, which is actually really common in the NBA in 3-5 second plays. Why do you assume anger? There is no need for that. We were doing just fine in this thread talking about exaggerations, without you resorting to calling me angry. lame Rudy isn't my idol...nearly *all* NBA coaches are my idol. 3 second plays are nothing more than what you saw. Anything else that looks "well designed" is often a result of a bad play by the defense or someone on offense pushed off and cheated. As illustration, if the Rockets gave up a wide open 15'er in an inbounds play with 3 seconds left, reactions would not be "great play." It would be about how our defense broke down or the other team cheated. You still aren't answering my question, btw: What play would you run, whereby we don't use a scorer to create a shot. The best, most memorable and clutch play of last week (?), was Duncan going one on one against Nowitzki. The play was specifically "designed" for Duncan to get it out 20' in the middle, so he couldn't be double teamed. It sounded like Dallas wanted to double team him, but San Antonio took that option away. If Duncan misses the "tough shot" it somehow becomes a poorly designed play, right? When Rose beat us in the 20T, same deal. Do you not accept that with less that 5 seconds (especially 3 seconds), there is no time for a play against NBA defenses that are prepared to overplay all passing lanes, overplay the ball....everything. Most all inbounds plays like that are very simple. Btw: if Dallas is so good at getting a good shot in the last seconds...how do you rank that stuff they did at the end of OT. Bunch of heaves. kidrock8, I understand your point about being tall, everyone does. Yet, players can nail turnaround jumpers and fadeaways. They are not "bad shots" for many players. A hand in your face is not really significant to a shooter. What is more significant is balance and gripping the ball perfectly from the dribble. The hand does not cause as many misses as not cleanly getting the ball out of the dribble. Mobley step back is becoming money. He's getting enough separation now where is can slow it down, jump controlled and not rush getting the ball from his dribble. He's not as hyper, anymore. The repetitions have helped tremendously, imo. He nailed 2 of those stepback against Chicago...excellent...both under 30 seconds left (once in regulation, and once in overtime) only to be matched by Rose. He can make it. Sure, it would be great if he were 6'8", but at least he is super fast, because that is what makes the stepback work.
no, BigTwoston. sadly they wouldn't be talking soo good about him. they'd still be b****ing. b****, b****, b****. walk like a duck, quack like a duck...
With the game on the line he decides to shoot off the side of the backboard instead of pass it?He gets himself in a position to be trapped on the base line?How does this scenario help.......The rockets against the nets for the championship....The rockets inbound, down by two in game seven here, Cat gets the ball he drives down to the baseline, he's trapped, he shoots, it hits off the side of the backboard, time expires, the NETS are the CHAMPIONS.Despite Cat's 70 pts, he chose to ignore the other wide open guys and shoot a selfish brick....The Nets win the rockets lose. Could you stand it if this happened?Guys like Cat are there to keep you in the games, but guys like Steve are there to win them.And when the ball gets in the hands of a guy who makes really bad decisions alot of the time you have to hold your breath.You know if Cat missed 80% of the bad shots he takes, you would agree he ain't all that....but Reggie Miller makes alot of shots too but has never got a ring because he may be a great shooter but he takes alot of stupid shots as well.It's not whether these guys can make the shot,THIS IS THE NBA, he wouldn't be here if he couldn't.....It's about will he make the right decision when the time comes to make one with the game on the line.shoot first, think later...that's Cat.
Well I can't remember the game, but Mobley did pass off to Moochie for the a huge shot in one game earlier this year. I remember it happening because I was extremely happy to see him finally pass off. The timing of this thread is extremely annoying though. We managed to show a lot of heart and beat one of the best teams in the league, and you start another b**** thread. You're like the 2002 version of ZRB...
BGM-Why does the timing matter? Because we won this 1 close game, negates the fact that we have a poor record in close games? You don't think closing out games is a problem with the Rockets, whether we won last night or not? Unless we won the title last night, there is always room for critcism.
Crispee-I will agree that the fadeway shot is developing somewhat for Cat. However, it's not as effective as Kobe's or whoever. It is different in the sense that Cat is just drifting back, he's not actually fading away in the sense that he's turning his body, which helps create more seperation, ala Olajuwon. Regardless, I'd like to see Cat be able to drive on his opponent, if his opponent is geared to stopping Cat's "driftaway" jumper.
Some of the complainers fail to recognize that the game wouldn't even have been close if it wasn't for Cat. He does take some tough shots even down the stretch, but in his defense he makes those shots. Also not many options with 3 seconds on the clock.
Going back to the subject of this thread, I actually think the Collier shot was a good play. The chips just did not fall for us tonight. I would take Collier's open 18 ft jumpers over Mobley's 22 ft fadeaways over 6 ft 6 or taller defenders.
