Red meat: how hard to give up?

Just thought I'd add a couple more verses from the Bible talking about food, since I thought this topic was interesting...


Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

 

I thought this was interesting Dino, so I kept reading
Romans 20-23 and it said,

"Do not for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for you to make others fall by what you eat; it is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that makes your brother or sister stumble"

I had never seen this before in the Bible. I checked 3 versions and all were very similar. Personally, I eat a lot of fish, but I quit eating other meat. I quit eating cows first after I heard so much about rainforest destruction and deforestation to create even more rangeland for cattle production. Then, I heard more about all the growth hormones and steroids injected into the cattle right up to slaughtertime. Then, I heard about how in order to save money, many feedlots use groundup roadkill and dead pets from veterinarians in their cattle feed.
I quit eating chicken after visiting a factory farm and seeing those disgusting conditions. Any animal that has never seen the sun or come out of a cage, I'm not eating. Also, my wife is from Northwest Arkansas and all the nice lakes up there have been polluted with chicken waste from the factory farms.
I quit eating pigs about the same time. In Hawaii, I was turned off by all the nasty water washed downstream and into the ocean from the pig farms along the river.
There are many aspects of largescale commercial fishing that I believe are harmful also. I prefer to catch it the old-fashioned way with a rod & reel if I'm going to eat it. Unfortunately, I buy my fish at the store most of the time, but I try to get it at Whole foods or from local fishermen.
Veggies and fruits grown with harmful pesticides and chemicals I try to avoid also.

My wife makes an incredible Stroganoff with that ground round stuff made from soybeans and man is it good. My kids have no problem eating the many delicious meat-free meals my wife serves. The veggie dogs, fake ham, and other stuff all tastes the same if you crave that particular taste.

 

Sorry, that was ROMANS 14: 20-23

 

FROM JEFF:

He who, seeking his own happiness, punishes or kills beings who also long for happiness, will not find happiness after death.

- Dhammapada (sayings of the Buddha)

"You must not use your God-given body for killing God's creatures, whether they are human, animal or whatever." (Yajur Veda, 12.32)

"By not killing any living being, one becomes fit for salvation." (Manusmriti, 6.60)



FROM ME:

Jeff . . .I'm confused. . . .do plants not live?

just because they don't have 'faces' does not mean
they do not feel [in some sense]
For have the happiness of the sun on their leaves

Rocket River

 

Believe it or not, there are "frutarians" who eat only plant foods that do not kill the plant in the process - i.e. apples because they come from a tree that continues to grow after the fruit falls rather than, say, carrots because they are the root of the plant and the plant must be destroyed to eat them. But, that isn't the essence of these statements and is an extreme that, frankly, seems out of step with nature.

Most religions who practice vegetarianism as a part of their spiritual practice define animals as 'sentient' and plants as not 'sentient'. Obviously, this is, to a degree, arbitrary and objective but it is also based on the concept of the Middle Way. The Middle Way is a Buddhist tenant that states that enlightenment is found in between life's extremes. Although that is a Buddhist tenant, the concept can be found spread throughout most religious practices.

In other words, you do the best that you can to preserve and cherish all life with the understanding that your life is no more or less important than any other. The balance between self-preservation and the preservation of other life is necessary to maintain balance in nature.

I think Buddhists, for example, would suggest that you wouldn't necessarily starve yourself if you had nothing but meat to eat. You would simply give thanks for what you had and appreciate that. However, if the option to NOT eat meat was available and if it was not to the detriment of your health to exclude it from your diet, you take advantage of that opportunity.

For example, the Dalai Lama does occassionally eat some meat because his doctor recommended it as a way to combat some of his illness problems. As part of this practice, he is mindful of where the meat came from and is careful to be thankful for the gifts of his bounty and the animal's sacrifice.

In many ways, this is very similar to how native Americans used every part of the buffalo they killed. Even the heart was given as a sacrifice to the god who allowed them to have the buffalo for their meal (and their clothing and their weapons). It is the cyclical balance of nature that they respected and that is akin to how other religions approach that balance as well whether it be in regard to "doing unto others" or "not killing any living being".

Iyanla Vanzant said that you did the best you could and when you knew better, you did better. It is that level of understanding of your balance within yourself and in the world that is key to these beliefs, not simply rules that you have to follow to the letter.

 

Right1:

I lived in Hawaii (O'ahu) also. My dad currently lives there... I stopped eating meat about a year ago for some of the same reasons you mentioned. Once in a while I do feel like eating a chili cheese hot dog, and a chili cheese burrito, though. But before I stopped eating meat, I think I ate enough of those to last quite a long time.

I found it interesting that in Gen 1 and 2 it mentions eating the herbs and fruit, but not meat. It was only when Noah got of the boat God made a covenant that every moving thing as well as the herbs were ok for food. I guess it has something to do with sin entering the world (since when God gave the fruit and herbs to eat, there was no sin at that time)... Either that, or after the flood there was nothing to eat but the Cow! But then again, I'm no Bible scholar.

That reminds me of the Miller Lite commercial where someone was BBQing steak, and thinking how Noah could be on the boat starving, without eating the cow.

 

There was this missionary a few years back doing the work of God over in Africa...I forget which country. Unfortunately, he wandered out one day to do some hiking and before he knew it, he was lost. As the day started to turn into night, the missionary grew worried, and that worry quickly boiled over into fear when he noticed a large lion staring him down a few hundred yards away. He turned to run, but he was no match for the speedy lion. Right before the lion pounced, the man who had dedicated his life to spreading God's word fell to his knees and prayed, "Lord, please fill this creature you so wonderfully created with your spirit". Sure enough, the lion stopped, fell, and said "Dear Lord, thank you for this wonderful bounty and bless this food for the nourishment of my body, amen."

 

I gave it up 6 years ago...but at that time it was for solely religious purposes.

Now I really have "lost my religion" persay...so I became so used to not eating it that I don't rely on it anymore.

 

Well, I don't really believe that right and wrong is black and white. I think that each person must make that decision for him or herself. Blanket decisions for any reason makes for poor spiritual practice.

I believe that, FOR ME, not eating meat is the right thing to do. I would never criticize someone for doing it or choosing that path. That is up to you.

For me, what is most important is respecting what nature (and God) provides. To utilize the Native American example again, not only did they treat their bounty as sacred and use every part of the buffalo they had, but they NEVER took more than they needed. They took only what was necessary knowing that protecting the very nature that sustained them was important.

Other Native Americans who were farmers would farm certain lands only so long before they moved on. Oftentimes, they would burn off a patch of land (a controlled burn) within a forest area to use for farming and for settling. They would stay there only as long as necessary, then move on and allow the forest to re-grow in the place where they had been. They even left the soil MORE fertile than when they came by plowing under their last harvest which fertilized the ground.

My point is that, having that level of respect for the lives around you, be they human, plant or animal, is a sacred practice. I believe that the majority of spiritual practices (including Christianity) are grounded in these beliefs and that, whether you eat meat or not, it is that respect that not only deepens the bond between a person and God (and, subsequently, nature) but makes this world a better place to live.

 

Not to worry my friend. Just like the Buffalo of the frontier times, the hot dog uses all parts of the animal as well...

 

Here ya go BK,

MSNBC link