It's not that I remember Hakeem dominating every series he was in....it's that I don't remember him playing like garbage in any of them. Off the top of my head Duncan has done that in two. But I'll play anyway. 96 Playoffs: Game 1: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199605040SEA.html Hakeem played like garbage. But notice that he only got 9 shots up. Cassell, Drexler and Horry all took more shots. Sam Mack took 1 less shot. If you don't remember this series, the Sonics played a swarming (illegial) defense, with a sole purpose of not allowing Hakeem to beat them. This game is a perfect example. Game 2: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199605060SEA.html Another bad game for Hakeem. He got 21 shots and fired blanks for most of the night. Game 3: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199605100HOU.html Hakeem played well, but Kenny Smith and Drexler got more shots than him. Elie got 2 less. Not that complex to see what was going on (Sonics deciding to let others beat them). Game 4: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199605120HOU.html Hakeem played well. To sum it up, we walked away from that series thinking two things. First, "Hakeem didn't have enough help". Secondly, "Our team is getting old and losing a step". No one thought, "Man, Hakeem didn't do enough", similar to when the Celtics mopped Chicago even though MJ put up 63. That's how it was for the majority of Hakeem's career....when he didn't have enough help. He was not blessed to play with good teams every year like Duncan. On the other hand, in each one of those Duncan playoff failures that I noted (01, 02, 04, 08), Jackson played Duncan straight up and he couldn't get it done. Go look at some of those games again, or the boxscores from them. You put Robert Horry or Horace Grant on Hakeem straight up, they are dead men. There is no way you could successfully check Hakeem with Karla Malone (been there, done that). Gasol on Hakeem straight up...are you serious? Duncan is easier to contain than Hakeem, period. He is not an uber-explosive scorer like Hakeem and Shaq. That's a huge difference. You can't tell me someone is as good as Hakeem offensively when you can let Gasol play him straight up and he struggles to shoot 45%. On the defensive side, there is no comparison. If Duncan can't stop Amare (the version without a jumper by the way) from pumping 30 a night into him, you can't tell me he could successfully check a bigger, more athletic version with a jumpshot in David Robinson. If he's bothered by the Wallace boys you can't tell me he would walk all over a frontline of Ewing/Oakley/Mason. He lost to Shaq 3 times. He couldn't check Shaq any time they faced up in the playoffs. Just make it make sense to me. If you want to point to his rings then tell me why those teams wouldn't win with Hakeem on them.
The NBA front office would have cancel the game. Gasol guarding Hakeem Olajuwon. Olajuwon would have the highest scoring average ever in an NBA playoff series. He'd destroy the current Lakers front line and have Wilt Chamberlain numbers. You already have a center who is a nightmare matchup and averaging 30 against HOF centers and all-world defenders, like Robinson and Mutombo. You stick somebody, like Pau Gasol on him. He'd think he was being Punk'd (MtV style) or somebody was trying to pull a rib on him...for throwing Gasol or Bynum on him. Duncan couldn't handle all three of those players, not enough to beat the Knicks in series. Maybe, if he was with David Robinson. But, as the lone talented big on his team, he would be overmatched. Again, I'll be fair, technically Duncan is just power forward, since many consider him to be the greatest power forward ever. I don't think forwards are held to the same standard as centers, since they can't change the game, like a center can. Duncan belongs in the class with other great power forwards, like McHale, Barkley, Malone, and KG. Those are his standards, he's not in the class with Shaq, Olajuwon, Wilt, and Kareem. I would say David Robinson is a better comparasion to Olajuwon than Duncan, even though Duncan might be a better player than David.
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Of course Hakeem how many times Duncan had MVP award. Hakeem should have two time MVP award but NBA robbed him the second year and gave to Robinson and Hakkem took Mr.MVP to school the same year.
duncan is not the greatest power forward ever. i think garnett deserves that title. replace duncan with garnett on those SA teams and i guarantee garnett carries them to a lot more titles even in the past 4 years. KG is a monster on both ends and has a better FT% and the only reason his FG% is lower is because he takes more 3 pointers. btw he can MAKE those shots too. Mr. fundamental has never been known to have that in his repertoire. Duncan was effective in his role, but in head to head comparisons he fails to live up to others like Hakeem and KG and especially those like Jabbar, Bird, Wilt, and (cringes) Shaq.
another note for duncan fans (i know none are prolly on here); hakeem wouldve never allowed a rookie Yao to do the things he did to duncan in his FIRST game against SA. Yao made Duncan look like Robinson against Hakeem.
Any idiot that votes Duncan over Hakeem should never be allowed to voice their opinion on anything else ever again. Duncan is a wonderful player, but Hakeem was phenominal and was the very best at his position during his era. Era aside, Hakeem was better than Duncan at everything.
I cant belive this is even being discussed. There is no way Duncan is even in the same LEAGUE as the Dream. Go to youtube, compare highlights and then stop asking stupid ass questions....pointless.....not even a competition.....
Dream had a great basketball IQ. Both Dream and Duncan went to championships early in their careers not just Duncan. The difference is that Dream took a very young team and beat the Show Time Lakers before being stopped by a great Celtics team. Had the Rockets not fallen apart because of injuries and drugs Dream would have been in more championships than just 3. As it stands his record is still pretty damn good. Duncan went to a ready made veteran championship team that had an MVP in David Robinson, Sean Elliot a good veteran point guard in Avery Johnson, Mario Elie and Jerome Kersey to name a few. Both players are great but one is clearly...clearly better than the other, Dream. Not only are Dreams numbers better but he does in fact have Championships to back it up.
I will list some of the reasons why Hakeem was better. 1) As it has been already mentioned, almost every series that Hakeem competed in, he pretty much dominated. He outplayed his opponent and was pretty much the best player in the series. The only series I can think of which was an exception was the latter Sonic series. And that is because Sonic deliberately doubled and tripled team him with 20 seconds left in the shot clock forcing anyone but him to attempt the shots. And we lost the series because, other than Hakeem, and a over the hill Clyde,no one on Rockets was capable enough to create offense on a consistent basis. Even then, as Icehouse pointed it out, Hakeem had pretty good numbers. Another point to keep in mind is that Hakeem was never the same after 94-95 season. He was coming off surgery to his knees and had lost a lot of quickness. He was very hesitant to pivot towards the baseline and this effected Hakeem a lot because is game was based on post moves and keeping the opponents guessing. As time went by, players, esp. Ostertag figured out that he did not have to worry too much about Hakeem's baseline spin move,so he played him for the hook shot. Of course,by this time age was not on Hakeem's side either. So, once again, before 94-95, Hakeem pretty much DOMINATED every series he was part of. His numbers were insane. OTOH, as it has been already pointed out and as it has already been seen, Duncan has had matchup problems. Shaq has always given him problems on defensive and offensive end. And we are talking about Duncan in his prime. Duncan had problems with Wallace brothers. Duncan had problems with Gasol. Duncan had problems with an over the hill Karl Malone. Just switch the scenario. What makes you think that Tim Duncan, who in his prime could not handle Shaq, could outplay or stay even him in the finals like Hakeem did? What makes you think that Duncan, who struggled against Pistons and Wallaces would be able to handle 45 minutes of non stop beating handed out by Mason,Oakley,Smith, and Ewing like Hakeem did? What makes you think that Duncan,who was troubled by Gasol, would be able to handle Charles Barkley? What makes you think that Duncan would be able to handle a prime Karl Malone when he could not even get by aged Malone. Hakeem passed all these tests,which are clearly more challenging than what Duncan has faced. 2) Let's look at the responsibility shared by both players. Before 94-95, Hakeem was responsible for 90% or more of the offense created by the Rockets. Almost every play went through him. Not only was Hakeem responsible to dominate his position but he was supposed to initiate offense and create open looks for everyone else. The only other play run by Rockets, when Hakeem rested, was pick and roll (Smith/Maxwell with Thorpe). After 94-95 Hakeem got some help from Drexler but Hakeem still was responsible for most of it. When Duncan has been shut down, like he was against the Pistons, Manu and Parker carried the offensive load. Can you imagine anyone carrying that load for Hakeem against the Knicks, for example? Seattle is a good example. If Hakeem had Manu or Parker, there is no way that Seattle could have double tripled him without those two completely shredding them inside the lane. For Rockets to win playoffs, Hakeem needed to be absolutely dominating. There was no other way around it. For Duncan to win in playoffs, he needed to be very good. He had plenty of help. 3) Hakeem was absolutely clutch in playoffs especially in last 5 minutes of close games. I don't know how many times near the end of close games,Hakeem would come up with big steals, blocks, points, or FTs. The only other player that I have seen in watching years of NBA games, who could do it on a nightly basis, was Michael Jordan. 4) There are certain numbers that I just cant see Duncan attaining. I just dont see Duncan make the clutch FTs as Hakeem could. I just dont see him average the number of blocks that Hakeem did. I just cant see Duncan be in top 10 ALL TIME of steals list. I just cant see Duncan average the numbers Hakeem did against Robinson, Ewing, Shaq etc in playoffs. Other than FTs, most of this has to do with Hakeem's superior athleticism and quickness. Hakeem was simpley more explosive. OTOH, I cant think of anything that Duncan can do but Hakeem couldn't. 5) Hakeem was more physical and could also take the physical punishment. Hakeem took beating for 45+ minutes a game in a seven game series from the most physical team in NBA. Michael Jordan took the same punishment but at least he had the freedom to roam around and stay outside the lanes when he wanted to. Hakeem had no choice but to stay in there while Mason pretty much held him up. The entire Knicks front court took turn and Hakeem still won. There is absolutely NO WAY that Duncan could have dealt with that kind of physical punishment. 6) Hakeem simply had a more refined offensive game. He had jump hook, baseline fade away, up and under, reverse baseline, jump shot off of a pick, and many more variations of each. Hakeem could face up or playback behind the basket. He could use finesse or simply overpower you. Duncan just does not have enough in his arsenal. His jump shot has been suspect at times and his back to basket game is not as effective. He is best at facing the basket. 7) Hakeem was better on defense. He was quicker and stronger for one on one defense (ask Karl Malone,Shawn Kemp). He had more of an intimidation factor coming off the weak side (Better block and steals numbers). 8) As great as Hakeem's numbers were in regular season,his numbers were even BETTER in playoffs. Simply amazing. He played better when it got tougher. Duncan simply cannot claim the same. 9) Hakeem did all this against better competition. 10) Both Horry and Elie, who have played with both players on their tea and clearly said that Hakeem was better. Fact of the matter is that Duncan has been blessed with solid management and very good players through out his career. Switch the shoes and I see Hakeem with 6+ rings and Duncan with 0. Duncan simply could not have dominated those Knicks, neither could he have put up those numbers against Shaq in finals.
Good stuff, Zboy. Lots of good insight. One thing Duncan is better than Hakeem at is talking in a high-pitched, nasally voice. He's also better at rubbing/palming his teammates' heads. I can't think of anything else.
he's better at being slow, banking his shots in (hakeem usually swooshed), he is better at having a bad FT% and better at speaking English.
I cant believe this question was brought up. Put Dream in Duncan's shoes and he doubles or triples his ring count. Ask Timmy's boy David Robinson who he thinks is better. listen what he has to say at the 1:32 mark. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hW4uXlRGAF0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hW4uXlRGAF0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
actually he should have had the award in 92 instead of Barkley. you could argue Robinson in 94-95 cause Dream was injured for a good part of the year.
Up and coming centers don't aspire to be tim duncun, they aspire to be Hakeem. The greatest compliment to give a center is to tell them their game is like Hakeems. Not anyone elses. Ask Shaq who the best big man he played agaisnt - he'll say Hakeem. Duncun? Hakeem was more fun to watch. He was faster, more graceful, stronger, more versitily, greater range, better defense (rebounds, steals, blocks). Duncun was a better passer - but that's because he wasn't as good as a scorer. How on earth people can delude themselves into putting Duncun ahead of Hakeem is beyond me.
