1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

WOW! Are we just completely ****ed?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by robbie380, Nov 6, 2008.

Tags:
  1. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,800
    Likes Received:
    41,241
    You didn't get the memo? We're all supposed to be putting the cost of the war(s) on our credit card(s). Pay your share!
     
  2. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,996
    Likes Received:
    11,176
    the same way we are paying for a "stimulus" package. fwiw let's also not forget that a good chunk of that iraq war spending was spent on american business. it's not as if we just lit all the $12 billion a month on fire. I'm not saying it was the best way to use money but just reminding you it wasn't completely wasted.

    either way...what does it have to do with our exploding credit? can anyone give me a reason why this isn't as bad as it looks? I would appreciate any education I can get.
     
  3. okierock

    okierock Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2001
    Messages:
    3,132
    Likes Received:
    199
    It's as bad as it looks.

    Easy credit = increase in purchases = increase in prices(no increase in value) = bubble = POP!!!

    I actually had a loan guy tell me I should buy a larger home/mortgage (interest only loan of course) because home prices always go up and I can just refinance later.

    Lots of people did this kind of crap. I fault the guberment only because these types of loans should be illegal or only available to people with perfect credit. They certainly shouldn't be available to people with marginal credit as a way to "help them".
     
  4. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,996
    Likes Received:
    11,176
    yeah that's what i am afraid of.
     
  5. fmullegun

    fmullegun Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    23
    bump for a response from Ottoman.
     
  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,051
    It's a game of chicken. As long as other countries don't call our debts, we can borrow as much as we want. It's not sustainable, by far (IMF had been warning us for 4 years already), but it is technically correctable.

    The problem is that the shock therapy involved (more taxes, less spending) would be skewered by both sides of the political spectrum.
     
    #66 Invisible Fan, Nov 11, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2008
  7. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,225
    Likes Received:
    15,439
    I am aware that the US government has borrowed money by issuing bonds to the SS Administration it is required pay back. That is more US Government debt relating to the general revenues not a problem with Social Security.

    Again, Social Security is way in the black for 30+ more years. The fact that it loaned its funds to the government does not reflect poorly on Social Security or indicate that these bonds aren't 'real assets'. Unless the US Government plans on defaulting on all of its bond obligations, those bonds comprise a real asset.
     
    #67 Ottomaton, Nov 11, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2008
  8. fmullegun

    fmullegun Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    23
    All of the money was turned into Bonds.

    Thus any amount of gap between income and output will be a debt that will need to be paid for.

    No matter how they arranged the accounting, social security has serious problems.
     
  9. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    7,418
    Likes Received:
    246
  10. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,225
    Likes Received:
    15,439
    No. The rest of the government has serious problems. Social Security has a bunch of assets in the form of bonds which they will redeem when the time is right for a lot of cash. They are flush.

    Or are you saying that bonds aren't real assets? That people who buy bonds are getting screwed by the government because the government spends the money and give back in exchange is a crappy worthless piece of paper with coupons on it?

    If that is a trick of 'arranging the accounting' you might want to give Warren Buffett a call and let him know all about how he’s been scammed for the last 50 years by tricky government accountants.
     
    #70 Ottomaton, Nov 12, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2008
  11. fmullegun

    fmullegun Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    23
    To say SS is fine because they are sitting on a bunch of bonds is just crazy. Pretty soon no matter how you mark it down, SS will be a cash hog. It will be a burden on our budget that will increase every year and we will be unable to cut it.

    You cannot say it is fine when we will have to increase public debt to pay for it.
     
  12. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,225
    Likes Received:
    15,439
    Again, that is not a problem with Social Security.

    It is a problem with the general fund, and law makers who glommed onto every source of cash they could come up with for the last 20 years, knowing full well they would have to pay it back.

    Paying back the social security bonds isn't optional, and the bonds are tangible assets. Their books are solid for 30+ years.

    To blame social security for lending out the money, is like blaming bond buyers for the fact that the national debt is so large. The fault lies with lawmakers who spend money that they don't have with full knowledge that they will have to pay it back later.
     
    #72 Ottomaton, Nov 12, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2008
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    76,683
    Likes Received:
    25,924
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/27641538

    The United States may be on course to lose its 'AAA' rating due to the large amount of debt it has accumulated, according to Martin Hennecke, senior manager of private clients at Tyche.

    "The U.S. might really have to look at a default on the bankruptcy reorganization of the present financial system" and the bankruptcy of the government is not out of the realm of possibility, Hennecke said.

    "In the United States there is already a funding crisis, and they will have to sell a lot more bonds next year to fund the bailout packages that have already been signed off," Hennecke told CNBC.

    In order to solve or stem the economic slowdown, Hennecke suggested the US would have to radically reduce spending across all sectors and recall all its troops from around the world.

    As for a stimulus package, there is not much of an industry left to stimulate back into life, Hennecke said.
     
  14. rhester

    rhester Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,600
    Likes Received:
    104
    I would very much support pulling as many troops as possible from around the world.

    I would rather send water well drillers, agriculture technology, doctors and preachers around the world.

    At least where they are welcomed.
     
  15. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,996
    Likes Received:
    11,176
    this is what i have been worried about for awhile.
     
  16. MadMax

    MadMax Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    76,683
    Likes Received:
    25,924
    coincides with zombie invasion.
     
  17. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,225
    Likes Received:
    15,439
    If the zombies are the zombified remains of American citizens, is it really an invasion?
     
  18. MadMax

    MadMax Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    76,683
    Likes Received:
    25,924
    now that's deep.
     
  19. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 1999
    Messages:
    23,178
    Likes Received:
    10,314
    Yes. The dead have no rights and they would be attacking living Americans.

    The tougher question is whether you could contact the spirit of someone who is now a zombie through a seance and whether that would have any effect on their zombie actions.
     
  20. rhester

    rhester Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,600
    Likes Received:
    104
    Zombies are anyone posting on Clutchfans after 2 am
     

Share This Page