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The Patriot act, would you repeal it?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by DaDakota, Oct 28, 2008.

  1. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Assuming the election goes the way it is looking, will an all democratic government step up and repeal the most aggregious trampling of civil rights in the United States history?

    Will they repeal the Patriot act?

    I would do that on day 1.

    DD
     
  2. aghast

    aghast Member

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    I don't really think there's much of a public groundswell for its repeal, or the rollback of other infringements of personal liberties that sprouted up in the wake of 9/11.

    If Obama keeps these powers, I fear they're pretty much permanent in the US, minus such an outcry. I fear a political calculus would determine that it's not worth spending post-election capital on this issue. And then what?

    If anyone is poised to do it, though, it would have to be a constitutional law professor-in-chief.
     
  3. FranchiseBlade

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    I would amend it, and get rid of dozens of Bush's crazy signing statements.
     
  4. Pete the Cheat

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    I have no doubt they would repeal it.

    it is one of the most glaring injustices of the Bush administration. if nothing else, it's repeal would be symbolic of the end of a tragic era...
     
  5. professorjay

    professorjay Member

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    If it were repealed during Obama's administration I'm betting the right would use this as more fuel to paint Obama as anti-American.
     
  6. insane man

    insane man Member

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    what would you like to keep.
     
  7. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    I'm coming to the conclusion that when the right labels you "anti-american" it's generally a good thing.
     
  8. rhester

    rhester Member

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    I couldn't agree more.

    But it will not happen, unless President Obama is much more the man that I think.
     
  9. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    [generalization]The right only cares about America if it's making them money. They don't care about America, they care about their wallet.[/generalization]
     
  10. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    I'd wager it's based more on fear than money. Plenty of wingnuts are poor.
     
  11. rhester

    rhester Member

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    There are few things I can think of more anti-American than the Patriot Act.
     
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I was against it from the start, so I'd like to see it repealed. I think the politically realistic approach would be to keep it but alter parts of it with amendments and blunt other parts with new piecemeal legislation. So you can get rid of the worst parts of it without ever being seen as against the Patriot Act, generally.

    Of course, this change would go nowhere unless Obama was leading it.
     
  13. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    I will not stir up a another debate but would like to say this much, I work in financial sector very closely related to banking and you would be shocked if I told you how much money was being laundered pre-Patriot Act. Although the civil liberties issue is a major drawback, the Act itself protects Americans in so many ways that they do not even understand. Before 9/11 the AML compliance policies in this country were a joke and financing terrorist was a breeze. Even OFAC had no real powers.
     
  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    So regulate the banks better, but give us our civil rights back.

    DD
     
  15. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    What civil rights have you lost? How has it changed your life?

    Mine has kept on going in the exact same manor. I don't know anyone's that have. To be honest, it doesn't bother me if the FBI is reading my emails or listening in on my phone calls. I have nothing to hide from them.
     
  16. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    Its not that simple you just can't stop the financing of terrorism through regulation. Accounts have to frozen through OFAC without notice to account holder. Suspicious Activity is now flagged even sometimes based ethnicity of the person conducting the transaction. This kind murky waters can't be threaded without an all-encompassing program which removes some liberty in order to ensure the safety of all. Can you imagine someone suing the Bank or any other financial institution for discrimination if the government didn't authorize such measures. Sorry but this is the landscape we live in the post-911 world and I am just giving you the picture from the financial institutions aspect. Now this kind of monitoring carries over to local state and federal agencies from DPS to Immigration. Patriot Act provides a framework for many harsh but necessary realities in today's world.
     
  17. aghast

    aghast Member

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    Unless you are suspected of a crime and there is a surveillance warrant with your name on it, this sentiment is fundamentally un-American. The fourth amendment's not important to you?
     
  18. FranchiseBlade

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    There's a difference if you don't value your freedoms. I do value mine. It does bother me if the FBI listens to my calls reads my e-mails, or keeps track of what library books I read.

    I hold my freedoms dear. I can understand that if you don't hold your freedoms in as high a regard then you might want to vote for Republicans.

    I have nothing to hide either when I write a letter to my siblings in another state. But I still put it in an envelope and wish for it to be private.

    I've lost some of my freedoms and civil liberties, and it bothers me. If you don't then you may want to look into nations like Singapore which have even less of these types of freedoms and are much safer in terms of crime etc.
     
  19. professorjay

    professorjay Member

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    That worked out well for Iraqis under Saddam Hussein, North Koreans, etc.

    I can't believe how short sighted this is. I'm totally baffled.
     
  20. rhester

    rhester Member

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    That isn't the issue.
    The power given to the executive branch is nothing short of granting permission to run a dictatorship. Forget about whether it is being used or abused. The potential for future abuse is inherrant in this type power.

    First of all the Justice Dept. has the liberty to decide the definition of a terrorist and the Patriot Act allows the govt. to act based soley on suspicion so every single citizen is at risk.

    1. The Patriot Act federalizes police action and even establishes a uniformed dept. of Secret Service. This means that with impunity the govt. can abuse their powers.

    2. Citizens can be arrested and detained without any charges and without the protection of an attorney. In other words arrests can be made and detainment without any constitutional protections. All they have to believe is that you are within their definition of a supsected terrorist or domestic threat.

    3. All types of electronic surveillance is allowed without charges or court obtained permissions. cell phones, medical records, computer activity etc

    4. Your home or business can be entered and searched based soley upon suspicion without any warrant.

    5. Secret Military courts can be used to charge and try any citizen.

    6. The CIA is allowed for the first time to investigate and act against US citizens domestically.

    This thing is a curse, giving this kind of power to govt. is a sure sign of the abuse of power and it will gradually (hopefully) happen, so don't count your liberty safe as long as it is legally lost.
     

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