1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

The term "true PG"

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by yaopao, Oct 18, 2008.

  1. yaopao

    yaopao Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    68
    My whole reason for this thread is to state that I think Brooks is adequate as a backup PG.

    What the Rockets need/ask of a PG is much different than most teams in the NBA.

    Brooks isn't a good fit for many other teams, but I feel he brings to the table skills that help offset some of Rafer's weaknesses and vice versa.
     
  2. baller4life315

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2003
    Messages:
    12,688
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    I agree although the only advantage he has over Rafer right now is his blinding speed. Shooting? Sure, we all hope he's going to develop into a sniper from downtown but 33% from beyond the arc is nothing to write home about.

    If Brooks never develops a steady jumper and long range accuracy he's of little value. A 6'0" midget that can't defend anybody is never a good thing unless that player makes up for those deficiencies elsewhere.

    He could be very Barbosa-esque if he ever becomes a great shooter. Players that can shoot that possess that type of speed are nearly unguardable. Pretty much the perfect "spark" to bring off the bench.
     
  3. Albert Einstain

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know you're a chinese so that you don't want to adopt an idiot as a chinese. I know I'm a fool but does that make me so disgusting that even the chinese people who are well known friendly don't accept me :( . Am I that terrible? :( Wherelse can I find a great photoshop work as good as this one?(even though it's now unavailible now) Only the chinese people can do such a great job because only the chinese have the extra time to do this because of their high unemployment rate. Even though the US is facing some terrible financial affairs that may lead to more unemployers, but I'm still confident we'll conquer the difficulies and bring our economy back to life. You may have no confidence in US goverment but you should not ever underestimate the texans who will definitly manage to do whatever they intend to do.
     
  4. ac in austin

    ac in austin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    387
    pure awesome
     
  5. Severe Rockets Fan

    Severe Rockets Fan Takin it one stage at a time...

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2001
    Messages:
    5,923
    Likes Received:
    1,490
    Uh...okay...
     
  6. pacmania

    pacmania Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    29
    its a talent. it doesn't mean it can't be developed.
     
  7. pacmania

    pacmania Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    29
    An innate talent cannot be developed . What else is wrong with my post? you're saying we should just let them play and stop commenting, but this is a message board and the whole point of posting is to post observations. We're just trying to be constructive.
     
  8. pacmania

    pacmania Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    29

    Deception skills are not only about fakes. they include hesitation and developing other facets that make the player unpredictable. These things are readily observable. Basketball is not rocket science. you just need to play to understand it. For example, on the drive and dish you have the sell the drive to the defense so they bite and commit so when you dish off you're man is free. thats deception. The pick and roll is likewise designed for a myriad of possibilities to deceive the defense. its readily observable . just watch and learn.
     
  9. legacygt777

    legacygt777 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,885
    Likes Received:
    630
    what? lost his dribbling? shooting? and assists? he's runs the rox plays better than anyone on the roster other than tmac. rafer hasnt lost his dribbling (last lakers game at the end of the game?).

    shooting? he's been always a bit low but his last year was his best in the past three years.

    as far as assists, he's had the most assists this year in the past 3 years.

    put it this way, if rafer is healthy and plays like last year....we're going to be unstoppable.
     
  10. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    16,211
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    So instead of Aaron Brooks meeting the standard, we gotta change the very definition of point guard down to his level. Just so we can feel good about what we got? ;)

    A point guard handles the ball and protects it against pressure. It does not mean they necessarily RUN or CONTROL the team's entire offense. The minimal responsibility of a PG is they get the team into the offense. PGs tend to be smaller because bigger guys tend to have more trouble dribbling against players who can take it from them, the smaller player benefitting from lower center of gravity.

    We know taller 6-8/6-9 players like Magic, Penny Hardaway, Shawn Livingston or McGrady can handle and control. If Amare Stoudamire could take the ball and go end to end with it with only 1 turnover a game and recognize when to get it to an open man, Steve Nash would play more as spot up shooter.

    But PGS are allowed to rebound and shoot like everyone else. Forwards are allowed to pass like everyone else. So its if the right mix of skills without turning the ball over can fit on the floor.
     
  11. leebigez

    leebigez Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2001
    Messages:
    15,768
    Likes Received:
    756
    Well I will say this, basketball isn't about deceptions. Now there are options, but no one is going magically appear out the floor and make baskets. Example, pick and roll with back side action, off set ft line. Now say rafer runs this play with scola, yao is opposite blocks, tracy is 3pt line extended opposite the play and shane is I the corner ball side. If they go under, then the defense is giving rafer the open mid range shot. Problem is, rafer is terrible from mid range. If they blitz it, that to get the ball out of rafer's hands and scola has the mid range shot or he can ball reversal strong side to tracy-yao side. There isn't deceptive about that. Now if tracy is in that same situation the play is different because tracy is a really good mid range shooter which also opens the drive lane. There isn't any deceptions about that. Most plays only have a couple of options. The key is how quickly a player can understand angles and the variations of the defense.What the jazz did the first couple of games in the playoffs weren't deceptive. All they did was blitz the pnr with tracy to force him back and down on the shot clock and the rox had no one else that could beat anyone off the dribble. Wha adelman did next was put tracy mid post in a zone where he could just turn and fire. There aren't as many deceptions as u may think. Its just being able to read and understand quickly.
     
  12. Chronz

    Chronz Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    814
    Likes Received:
    11
    You dont have to dominate the ball to be a true PG so when talking about assists dont look at their assists per game, look at their assist per possessions, their assist ratio and assisting%.

    True PG's usually rank highly in pure point rating and assist ratios

    Top10 Assist Ratio's
    Calderon
    Brevin
    Kidd
    Nash
    McGinnis
    Anthony Carter
    Duhon
    Anthony Johnson
    CP3
    Deron

    But Id rather have a scoring PG who can get the job done, than a player who only looks to pass because he cant score. If the player can do both effectively but looks more to pass (Nash, CP3, Deron, Billups) then you have the very best at the position.
     
  13. pacmania

    pacmania Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    29

    it is elementary and basic in basketball that defense is about anticipation and offense is about deception. The pick and roll if properly run can have a myriad of possibilities and yes they are several options on the play but to key to successful execution is to read what the defense is doing make them react or commit and then making a crisp pass to the open man. Essentially there is an element of deception in getting your man either wide open for a jumper or the roller wide open underneath. It is sort of like pick your poison, but at the same time involving an element of deception.

    If an offensive player is very easy to read then defenses easily anticipate and more often than not the play results in a turnover.
    The coaches were talking about this in our early preseason games. to paraphrase the coaches said " you don't just throw the ball in a crowd because a cutter went there". This is surely going to result in a turnover.

    The key is variation, early on in that memphis game i think, as the cutter was going inside the defense converged on him and the entry pass resulted in a steal. thats because the defense easily anticipated that the ball was going to the cutter. Whereas, if you put some variation fake the pass to the cutter and pass to the open outside shooter defenses will commit first to the cutter then you have a wide open shot.

    Rick Adelman also talked about variations in how Yao get the ball, to paraphrase he said something like "obviously Yao is more effective when not everyone in the building knows that the ball is going to him".
    The key is for Yao to cut to the interior as the ball is being moved or as they call it the 'swinging ' of the ball from side the side. Basically the swing is from for example ball is in the right elbow outside three point line intermediate pass to the pointguard at the center just outside three point lind and then quick pass to the player on the left elbow. the key for Yao is to post up at the center as the ball is swinging from one side to the other. This happened several times in the preseason game and it was either automatic for Yao when he got it that close or a three point play.

    I totally agree with your that the offense is designed to have multiple options. The key to being unpredictable and successful is to not be obvious which option you are going to choose or exploit.
     
  14. v_sunny

    v_sunny Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    0

    may one day somebody else called chuck the pg because he pass the ball.. :rolleyes:
     
  15. warmshizzle

    warmshizzle Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    623
    Likes Received:
    7
    Here we go.

    PGs do not 'confuse defenders', defenders do not get confused, only left behind. PGs try to create and utilise space and passing lanes for themselves and others, that is what they do. They are not hypnotists.
    Also, other players on the court do not read what the PG does, it is the other way round. Sure if your a PF and your PG signals for a screen, you screen for him. But this isn't 'reading' the PG, it is communicating with him.

    Yes every good point gauard has the ability to decieve, but its all relative to who is marking you. I have the ability to 'deceive' the guys that i play with at the local basketball court but it does not mean that I am an NBA calibur PG or that I can 'deceive' NBA calibur defenders.
    And PGs are not mind readers, they do not react to what their defender thinks he is going to do. You take what the defense gives you.Most defenders play in a way that capitolises on their mans weaknesses. E.G. If he doesn't have very good range you sag off on him a bit when hes at the 3 point line. Very seldom does a defender get 'deceived', and when it does, it usually ends up on the highlight reel.

    Again, its all about taking what the defense gives you.


    A basketballfake by my definition and im sure many others, is the act of pretending to do something. Hesitation falls under this catagory perfectly.
    On the drive and dish you do not sell anything, you ARE going for the basket. On your way their you reaad the defenders and take what they give you. Its not about deception. The same goes for the pick and roll.



    No it is not. You are wrong. Anticipation defense = risky defense. There is more than one way of playing defense. Where did you learn how to play/coach basketball? Who was your coach? Because they have instilled false principals into you.

    This is true to a certain extent, but the problem with your statement is, unless you know the player inside out it is extremely difficult and near impossible to defend a player by reading and anticipating him. And even if you know what he is going to do, the key is reacting fast enough and being physically fast enough to take advantage of this information. E.G. Just because you know steve novak is looking to shoot it doesn't mean that you can stop him.



    If on offense, you are obvious about what you are going to do, unless you know they cannot stop you from doing it you are a bad player and should not be in the NBA.

    I am saying Aaron brooks is not here, and if he was I'd like to think that he has experienced and knowledgeable people who can give him advice about how to become a better player. How to become a better PG is a topic of discussion that on a message board such as this, is not suitable to be discussed. We are not a collective of competitive players and coaches, are just basketball junkies. Well, most of us.
     
  16. warmshizzle

    warmshizzle Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    623
    Likes Received:
    7
    Sorry, I was a bit distracted when writing that very last comment so heres to revision -

    I am saying Aaron brooks is not here on this forum, and if he was I'd like to think that he has more experienced and knowledgeable people who can give him advice about how to become a better player than us. How to become a better PG is a topic of discussion that on a message board such as this, is not suitable to be discussed. We are not a collective of competitive players and coaches, are just basketball junkies. Well, most of us.
     
  17. JVGFAN

    JVGFAN Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    2
    Although not a "True PG", I think Brooks is starting to develop nicely as a backup. In this offense the object is to get the ball moving around until you find the defense giving up the easy shot. It's good ball movement from all 5 spots so not having have that "True Pg" is ok. We were looking for that 3rd scoring option this offseason, which we got in Artest, and I see Brooks as a 4th scorer. I really think Brooks is going to contribute well as a scoring option off the bench and am impressed by his preseason. So, yes Brooks isn't a "true PG", but who cares. Hakeem wasn't a true center, cause he moved like a guard. Most centers cant hit from 15ft or cross you over like Dream. As long as Brooks can take care of the rock, hit the open shots and create his own shots we should be confident with him playing behind Rafer.
     
  18. pacmania

    pacmania Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    29
     
  19. pacmania

    pacmania Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    29
     
  20. pacmania

    pacmania Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    29
    So when a defender is in a defensive stance he is not anticipating in any way. When a defender is sagging off what is he doing ? just observing and waiting? what is the defender doing when he is in defensive mode. You don't have to make this personal , because no one is concerned with my local background or your background. lets just keep it simple. But if you really want to share who your coach is then go ahead: who was your coach? where did you learn to play/coach basketball? what a conceited airhead.
     

Share This Page