1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Palin: Chasing Wolves w/snowmobile = unfair, Shooting by Helicopter = cool

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SamFisher, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. LCII

    LCII Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    395
    that made me crave alaskan crab. They're SOOOOO good just steamed with garlic.
     
  2. wesnesked

    wesnesked Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    11
    Dude..did you just pull that out of nowhere? According the Alaska Fish and Game you're wrong on both accounts:

    Wolves and bears are very effective and efficient predators on caribou, moose, deer and other wildlife. In most of Alaska, humans also rely on the same species for food. In Alaska's Interior, predators kill more than 80 percent of the moose and caribou that die during an average year, while humans kill less than 10 percent. In most of the state, predation holds prey populations at levels far below what could be supported by the habitat in the area. Predation is an important part of the ecosystem, and all ADF&G wolf management programs, including control programs, are designed to sustain wolf populations in the future.

    The Alaska Board of Game approves wildlife regulations through a public participation process. When the Board determines that people need more moose and/or caribou in a particular area, and restrictions on hunting aren't enough to allow prey populations to increase, predator control programs may be needed. Wolf hunting and trapping rarely reduces wolf numbers enough to increase prey numbers or harvests.

    Currently, five wolf control programs are underway that comprises about 9.4% of Alaska's land area. The programs use a closely controlled permit system allowing aerial or same day airborne methods to remove wolves in designated areas. In these areas, wolf numbers will be temporarily reduced, but wolves will not be permanently eliminated from any area. Successful programs allow humans to take more moose, and healthy populations of wolves to continue to thrive in Alaska.

     
  3. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,893
    Likes Received:
    16,449
    Why do humans need to "take more moose"?
     
  4. IROC it

    IROC it Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,629
    Likes Received:
    89

    A lot of people eat what they hunt. Most do. Why not make it available to sportsmen and create revenue instead of letting predatory animals that could also attack humans "take" them?


    Have you ever gone hunting? No?



    Did you eat any hamburger recently... or chicken?



    Why should humans do anything to obtain food? Why not let nature do it all?



    Double standards.
     
  5. Landlord Landry

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Messages:
    6,857
    Likes Received:
    296
    maybe they aren't predators, but hogs destroy land like bulldozers. They can mess up a cattle ranch and harm livestock. I will gladly shoot a wild hog from the sky, ground, water......anywhere. Tasty also.
     
  6. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,893
    Likes Received:
    16,449
    So, it's for sport. Got it. My apologies if there actually exists humans in Alaska that depend on hunting these moose for their survival.

    No.

    No.

    Please. This isn't about hunting moose to feed the hungry. It's about killing animals for fun. If you think that's ok, then I'm not going to argue with you over it. But there's no need to dress it up into something it's not.

    Speaking of which, back to the double standard brought up by the OP. Why is it wrong for humans to use snowmobiles to kill wolves, but it's ok to shoot them down from helicopters (hardly more "fair") in order to enable more hunting opportunities for other wildlife? What's the difference?
     
  7. Landlord Landry

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Messages:
    6,857
    Likes Received:
    296
    how exactly do you kill a wolf...."fairly"? does the wolf also get a rifle and the ability to reason?
     
  8. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,893
    Likes Received:
    16,449
    When they talk about fairness, I don't think they mean being fair to the animals being hunted (I don't think that's even a consideration). It's about being fair to the other hunters.
     
  9. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    22,793
    Likes Received:
    12,558
    If you are allowed to hunt something. Who cares how you kill it as long as its not cruel.
     
  10. IROC it

    IROC it Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,629
    Likes Received:
    89

    If a person wants to eat what they kill for sport.... why is that so bad?




    You do know, as I said, most people eat what they hunt and kill... Don't you?


    It's older than time itself. Modern age... modern ways. Food nonetheless.



    Look... if someone wants to spend an amount of money that is extreme to others to have a little fun hunting, and in turn paying way too much for a meal... so what? It also puts money into the economy for an ageless act that's legal.


    People spend money on stupider things that feed no one... all the time.

    I'll spell it out.

    Snowmobiles leave tracks on the ground, directly in the habitat of the wolves and other non-predatory animals. If people go tearing across those areas in that manner, it does more harm to the ecology... and it "unfair" to the other animals in the terrain.

    On the other hand, a helicopter never touches the ground, and the predatory animal is taken out with no harm to the other animals.

    That is "unfair" vs. "fair." It is not about humans, or the wolves... but the non-predatory flora and fauna in the area the hunt takes place.

    As for an angle that might be directly "fair" to a wolf being shot from a helicopter vs. a snowmobile... the heli shot is probably less invasion, more quick -with little to no chase - the snowmobile is most likely a lot more intense and abusive... But that part is a just a guess. If I wanted to euthanize a pet, I would think it unfair to first chase it all over town in a threatening manner. Just a thought.
     
    #30 IROC it, Oct 15, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2008
  11. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,893
    Likes Received:
    16,449
    Obviously I'm not a fan of recreational animal-killing, but it wasn't my intention here to pass judgment on hunters. I just wanted to be clear what the goal was in allowing people to shoot wolves from helicopters. And it's clear to me now, the goal was to make it easier for hunters to kill moose.

    Ok, thanks for that explanation.
     
  12. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    Aldo Leopold, Thinking Like A Mountain, 1948
     
  13. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    27,105
    Likes Received:
    3,757
    animals who are hunted for sport would not be around if they were not protected for this sport. The money to protect them and the money put into breeding them comes from hunters.

    Cows would be the only large animal around since they are such efficient meat makers.

    These game animals also have much nicer lives than any animals raised to be food.
     
  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,783
    Likes Received:
    3,705

    that's a pretty broad statement that i'm sure is inaccurate for the most part.
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,045
    Likes Received:
    39,518
    It would be more sporting if we could chase Palin's from a helicopter.

    DD
     
  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,055
    Likes Received:
    15,229
    Isn't that the department that was restocked with Palin appointments to reduce environmental/endangered species restrictions? (Sincere question, memory failing.)
     
  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,045
    Likes Received:
    39,518
    Don't bother Iroc It, he is busy hunting for dinosaurs.

    ;)

    DD
     

Share This Page