Not an apt comparison. Rudy Gay was a lottery pick. Greene was #28. Rockets roster today is also WAY better than its roster three years ago too. Back then they were a contender. Now they're championship caliber. No matter how you look at it, the gambit must be made.
I was pissed about the Battier trade but I doubt I will ever have regrets about this one, even if we don't win a title with Artest. Battier is a role player. Artest is a star (you can argue he is in the top 30). I have no problems giving up a potential star for a sure-fire one. Secondly, the Battier trade didn't put us close to a title. The Artest trade does (on paper at least). They made the right decision this time.
no those guys became points in the nba. i would say vince carter developed some semblance of handles in the league. andre iguodala may also be another, but no one with major ball handling skills, its almost a natural talent
exactly. this was my point about the battier/gay trade. if shane is a contributor on a rockets championship team, then it was a good move. period. same for ron. if we win a championship then every move made has to be accepted as part of what won it for us.
Dude, the first 2 already had PG and ballhandling skills when they entered the NBA, that's why they were drafted so high LMAO FAIL Brandon Roy had handles coming into the draft but not pure PG handles, but still can bring the ball up the floor, that's one of the reasons why the Rockets had such a hard on for the guy. The question was any player developed ballhandling skills after being drafted, it's tough cause you develop ballhandling skills very early on in your teen years. The one I can think of is TMac, I don't remember him being counted as a ballhandler in Toronto, but maybe he wasn't asked to. The other is Scottie Pippen, but even then he was a PG in college before he got a growth spurt to his current height.
Yea, that's my whole point. Too easily around draft time, fans say, "oh, he's a bit raw, but he'll work on this or that [esp. ball handling] and develop the ability to create his own shot." It just doesn't work that way. Sure, almost everyone improves their ball-handling, some more than others (Hakeem comes to mind), that's an obvious outcome when basketball is your livelihood. But the point is that I can't think of a single guy that you would say developed 'handles' - good ball-handling/the ability to put the ball on the floor and create. It's just something that cognitively seems to come best early in development.
Ironically, T-Mac is the guy that comes to mind when I'm trying to prove my point. There's a clip somewhere online of that draft where they pull up his scouting report and lo and behold under strengths is listed 'ball-handling.' Once moved into the starting lineup late in his last year with Toronto, he also was their point guard, taking turns bringing it up with Doug Christie. There's just no evidence that a person can develop that ability so late in life - I don't know why fans/experts don't get this.
I think I can clear this up a little. what a player can develop is his physical abilit to dribble the ball better. drills and dedication can turn a "ball slapping" akeem into a "fluid dribbling" hakeem. in this sense, a player can improve ballhandling because it, simply, is a matter of dexterity/muscle control. what players absolutely DO NOT develop is vision and instinct. that is something you are born with and is the difference between a tmac and a rashard lewis. tmac was born with superior court vision and instincts but had to continually work on his physical handles. shard has poor court vision but has worked to become a serviceable dribbler. another example is francis. superior physical ability but awful court vision. despite his work ethic, is it never did or COULD change. that was a mjr reason for me not wanting him in houston 2 begin with. bottom line, if a player has vision/instincts for the game ala paul, tmac, nash, you can have a special player. greene, gerald wallace, francis, et al cap out as superior role players if and only if they have the work ethic. otherwise you're left with a one dimensional scrub. see: shandn andersn
It's good to see that he's enjoying himself. I bet he took the trade pretty hard, with his whole deal with his girlfriend officially enrolling at U of H and his best friend moving down to Houston for him. He seemed like he was really excited about playing for us, and I'm glad that he isn't still down. I'll be rooting for him, he seems like a nice kid. Does he seem more outgoing and less nervous than before?
Iguodala already had serious ball handling skills before coming into the league. He was the primary ball handler his last year or two at Arizona.
While I agree with everything you said, the distinction between vision/instinct and ball-handling isn't the one I am trying to make. That's a whole different animal. To apply your example to my principle, while I agree Steve Francis has no court vision or instinct, he certainly has a good set of handles - he is fluid with the ball in creating for himself. So while the definition you are trying to establish would only include pure pg's, that's not quite what I'm getting at. I allow for guys like Vince Carter, Stephen Jackson, Antoine Walker, Dirk Nowitzki, and Luol Deng, who can all score off the dribble. Take a guy like Shane Battier. I would assume he practices as hard as anyone given his work ethic. But if you've ever seen him try to dribble with his left hand in a game, you know what I'm talking about.
