Career Advice

Almu, you have a new child correct? (Or am I just forgetful?)

My opinion is to stay where you are. Security is vastly underrated. I may not like the job I'm in, I certainly don't like the hours (rotating shiftwork), but I get paid well, and that provides for my family. To me, being sure that my family is taken care of in terms of money AND insurance benefits far overrides my personal happiness at work.

Just my humble opinion.

But if you don't have any kids yet, then go for it.

 

One thing to think about when changing careers is this : You say you love working with computers and putting networks together at home, etc., but you don't like bringing your finance work home. This apparently leads you to believe that you'll enjoy working with computers for a living. I know a lot of programmers who loved programming as a kid and in college, but absolutely abhor it "in the real world" simply because it's a whipping. Mismanaged projects, unrealistic timelines, ignorant project managers, clueless upper management, etc. have all combined to kill what they once loved. They would never think about taking their work home or programming at home... it's gone from being fun to being work.

I'm not saying this will happen to you, but I've always been under the impression that you never know how much you love doing something until you have to do it for 8+ hours a day. lol. I loved programming as a kid and I still dabble in it a lot, but there's no way in hell I'd do it for a company (except some of the WinRunner programming I do now). I brought a Visual C# book to work the other day and bought an MSDN Universal license. The first reaction from other developers was "it's about time you joined the dark side!". My response was "not a chance in hell". I can't see myself taking something I love doing and having it turned into "a worker's hell".

IT people are probably some of the best-paid, but least respected humans on the planet. In most larger companies, few people care who you are just so long as you do your work. Part of this is because the turnover rate can be so high.

Just from reading your post, you almost seem to be saying you'd rather stay and really know the answer to your question already. It almost seems to me that your problem is not necessarily your work, but your location and the effects of 9/11.

 

The average adult changes careers six times in his/her lifetime. Don't think your alone. And, because most adults spend an average of 120 hours of their 168-hour week sleeping, working or preparing for work, you better find something you actually enjoy.

With all due respect to behad on this one, security is overrated. Ask everyone who was so sure they'd retire at Enron. Security is an illusion when someone else is at the wheel of the company who pays you. Ultimately, the only REAL security we have is in knowing that we can work at all.

You have a lot of skills and are obviously a smart guy. When you have that combination, it isn't hard to find work that will pay you. It isn't hard to make money. You just have to be creative and be willing to take some chances.

Besides, the most wealthy people in America aren't the people who work for someone else OR the people you would expect to be wealthy. Read The Millionaire Next Door and you'll understand what I mean.

It is scary to give up on something that feels safe but it can also be liberating. You're a smart guy. You'll do fine.

 

I have often asked myself during this whole Enron ordeal, "Why in the hell did those people have all their money tied up in one stock?" I know the bigwigs were telling them all is well, buy our stock, but all companies do that to some degree. I have my money in 5 different funds, and move it around as needed according to which funds are hot. In bad times, I move it to a thrift fund for safe keeping. This make me feel secure, knowing my money will be there when I retire.

Jeff, with all due respect, you do not have kids. It's a much different feeling knowing you are responsible for the security of others who cannot do for themselves. Like I said, I sacrifice my job happiness for my family.

 

I think the thing to keep in mind, when taken in combination with all the other points brought up, is that you do like your current job. You seem really pleased with where you are and where you will be. It's just a random situation (9/11) might be causing you to overanalyze things - like you're not wanting to bring your work home. Really, who does, especially if the hours are already long anyway?

If you really think the computer industry is the way to go and are truly unhappy with where you are (although this doesnt sound like the case), then go for the switch. But more likely, you've just found a hobby, and one that you're good at. We all have hobbies.

I'd stick with you're current job. I'd also be interested to hear what it is you do / whom for as I'm going into the industry, but understand you may not want to post that info.

 

I actually know someone in went through the same exact situation as you want to go through. He has a MBA in finance and worked at Ernst & Young before becoming MSCE certified. He then got an IS job that payed more, stayed there for six months, then went back to his old job. He didn't tell me why, but I'm pretty sure it was because it wasn't as big of an increase in job satisfaction as he first thought it would be.
He also has two small kids and a very nice house to take care of, so that might have factored into it as well. I still don't think he's happy in his situation, but doesn't know what else to do.

(I told him his titheing strategy sucks because he goes to my church, but that has nothing to do with your situation.)

 

Almu, what a tough question. What I don't understand is: 1)whether you like your job duties at work hour by hour , 2) Whether you have significant savings and 3) how old you are.

Many years ago I was an engineer when I first got out of school, doing caluclations i.e., homework, bored me to tears. I'm not cut out for a 100% desk job. After the initial excitment of getting paid, I found that going to lunch , breaks and the bathroom were the highlights of my day. I quit and scrounged for money for over 10 years while I tried other degrees and jobs. I have never regretted it a minute..

Now, I have a work situation sort of like yours, perhaps. Good pay, not too many hassles, a lot of freedom. I generally like what I do hour by hour. I can easily live with it. Pretty comfortable. Now I have a kid and am too old to go swithcing careers easily again. To improve my situation would require early retirement to do things like be a leftwing do gooder as no corporations are going to subsidize me.

If you hate it hour by hour, quit asap.

If it really pretty comfortable hour by hour (Great perks and no hassles is not really what I'm talking about.) make plans to try what you want with some safety after you've saved more money and tried the work part-time so you really know you like it in the real world..

As Jeff said with your skills money should not be a problem, especially if you downsize. I would suggest "Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez. That book tells you step by step how to retire or semi-retire in just a few years to do what you love.

 

Almu,

I'm a Network Engineer who would trade jobs with you in a heartbeat. I've been working in the computer industry for about 9 yrs.

If you want to pursue something that you love, I say go for it. But not right now. The IT industry isn't
looking to hire many inexperienced workers right now. That's not a knock against you, it's just that
many companies have been burned by what we call paper techs. Basically, ppl pay SMU, or whoever,
lots of money take certification classes, take the test, and voila! You are now an MCSE, etc..
Well, they've since learned that experience is better than any certification you can obtain. Which
is a good thing, since I deal with a different paper tech at least once a week.

DoD is also correct in saying that we are the most underappreciated ppl in the company. No matter
how late I stay, how many hrs I work, I'll never get a thank you. Which by now, I couldn't care less
if I do or not. I've deducted that ppl in general will never understand what I do, and as long as mgmt
thanks me in my bonuses and pay raises, everyone else can expect a 30min wait when they page me.

Anyway, you sound like you are set pretty well in your job. Why change? If you love networking so
much, pick up some side jobs on the weekends. As well as I get paid, I'd take your job in a hearbeat.

Good luck!

PS. If you do pursue this field. I want to be the first to speak the truth to you. Microsoft SUCKS when it comes to networking. If anyone says differently, ask them how experienced they are with Novell and Unix.

 

I am an "IT guy". I am a PC Technician, a Network Technician, Server Admin, Programmer and Teacher. As much as I enjoy doing it, and I can understand your enjoyment with it, I can't personally recommend a career change at this time.

It's not because I don't think you'd enjoy it. Quite the contrary. In my IT jobs, I've always enjoyed my work (on the whole), and it's always at least semi-interesting. You do often get to a stage where it's really repetitive and mindless. Same things over and over and over again. It's fun at first, but after you've done your 200th CD ROM installation, or Windows install, it gets kindof boring. But that's not why I don't think you should move. For someone new to IT, this stuff won't get too repetitive for at least another year or two of full-time work.

The reason I don't think you should change right now is this -- jobs for IT workers (especially new ones) are nowhere to be found. You'll hear everyone say "oh, you got a degree in computers, there are tons of jobs" . . . they say that because they're not in computers. I have some friends who are looking for IT work and are having no luck. I even have a friend who has years of experience, MCSE, A+, and he's been out of work for almost 2 months and is just now getting a temp contract laying Cat 5 at $7 per hour. Crappy job, but it's a job nonetheless. Personally, when I'm down about my job, I just thank GOD that I have one! I imagine you'd remember my 3 month fruitless job search. Finally I landed a few offers, but definitely not my "first choice" at all. When the economy started going downhill in late 2000, the IT industry took it the hardest. As dot-coms folded, you had thousands of qualified, experienced computer professionals on the job market. A lot of companies had hired IT Personnel at HIGH salaries just to have IT Personnel. They didn't even need these workers, it was just the craze at the time. A lot of companies didn't need all of the people they hired, and CERTAINLY not at the 100K+ levels they were hired at. So they jettisoned a lot of IT, and now you have thousands more who are out of work. Combine that with all of the people who went to college and got IT degrees because "there was money in it". A lot of people went into IT in college not because they liked it or were good at it, but because there WAS money in it. Well, you have scores of people graduating with IT degrees. Now they're on the job market. BUT NO ONE HAS BEEN HIRING. It's a bit better now than it was last year at this time, but it's still a bad market for IT people.

When I was looking for a job, the biggest problems were:

<b>no jobs available</b> - that was common everywhere. I went to one small company where they had JUST LAID SOMEONE OFF THAT DAY who did what I would've done

<b>no experience</b> - I didn't have PROFESSIONAL experience . . . Professionally, I had 4 months of database management experience, 4 months of PC Technician experience, and some off and on web development. I had a great college "career", but they didn't care about that. They wanted 3 to 5 years of professional experience AT LEAST

<b>not the skills we need</b> - the skills that they wanted were Peoplesoft programming, M$ SQL Server, Oracle, AS/400 . . . where where the hell am I gonna learn that, oh I know, at a JOB, which I can't get!!! I imagine it may be different technologies now

So I didn't have those things . . . I was considered by the people I went to college with to be the best in the IT program (at least knowledge wise, not grade-wise by any means). But it was nothing to these people. I went to IT placement centers, big companies, small companies, everything. And add (on top of that) <b>that they had their pick of people who really did have all that experience and knowledge due to everyone who'd been laid off over the past year</b>. From talking to my friends in IT, things are still similar, but are better than they had been. Still not good for job seekers though. Especially without 3 to 5 years of experience.

Me, I ended up working at my old high school. I worked there for a week as a part-time temp, and when I got 2 offers from other schools, Strake offered me a job too. Education is the ONE PLACE where there is always a job. Not necessarily teaching, but doing other things.

Unfortunately, people who do what I do (and what you want to do) are dime-a-dozen. Even if you're good (as I am/was), you are only as good as your "professional experience" says you are. And we all know that you can't get experience without a job.

Now, I think you'd be in better standing than I am/was because you have held down a job for a while. But, the skills you have are not the most marketable right now. Although, your certs are helpful. Programming is the main thing that is still in demand, and it's often with stuff that you can't just pick up and learn. Like Peoplesoft. You need to have a peoplesoft network set up just to learn it! With your experience in "other fields", somewhere like K-Force might be able to put you in a job pretty easily.

I TOTALLY endorse your desire to move. I can understand it. But right now, the jobs are so scarce, I'd say to give it some time. Work on getting more certs, most of all KEEP LEARNING. In a year, things may get better for the IT industry.

 

This is a damn interesting topic. How many people don't have this problem?

Don't like to bring your work home? I'd say you're lucky. I don't even like to work on my hobbies. As hobbies go, I think they are a pursuit better left at the amateur level. When they become too important, the challenge goes from being engaging to being stressing. I have always tried (with less and less success as I age) to not define myself by my work but what I do in my off-hours. For that reason, I wouldn't want to do professionally those things that I most love.

However, in my own life, my ideal seems increasingly hard to realize. And, I've been wondering myself if I should take a step back financially to do something I'd love to do. I haven't yet. I don't have a child to support, but I do have a wife who has already take that plunge (starting her own business) and isn't making enough money to cover my ass if I try it.

That said and despite the fact that I do cling to my financial security, I do think such security is overrated. I don't think having children or other dependents has much bearing on a person's attitude about it. I personally don't much respect the danger of falling into poverty or privation. I just doubt it will happen, whatever I do. For the moment, though, I want to buy a house, so I hang on to the well-paying job.

Also on security, if you think you can be an absolute safeguard for your children, you're fooling yourself. Perhaps you can make sure they are well-fed, well-housed, well-dressed and well-educated. You can't protect them from terrorist bombings, from hockey pucks, from date-rape, from disease, from Enron-bankruptcies and about a billion other calamities. To a certain extent (and depending on your theological/philosophical views), you are relying on God or happenstance to keep you and your children safe. Money is something somewhat in your control, but ultimately, it is not.

(I got a dog a year ago and I diligently trained her and fed her and kept her clean. We did everything we knew we could do for her. She died within six months of parvo. It was a joy to make sacrifices (which were not great) for her, but I felt guilty for quite a while for letting her die when I really had no control. Security is an illusion.)

Finally (and perhaps the only thing worthwhile), I think you create a false dichotomy when choosing between Finance and Computers. You have good experience, a good reputation, and good connections in Finance. This won't completely disappear if you leave the industry for awhile. You may have to catch-up some lost ground, but you can return to Finance if Computers doesn't work out. And, more importantly, you may be able to find some synergy between your skills in Finance and your computer skills to fill a unique role for someone who needs both in a single employee.

To Recap:
1. Hobbies should remain hobbies.
2. Security is more comfortable.
3. You cannot make yourself secure by your own work.
4. Find synergy among your skills and interests.

 

Parvo can be controlled. Puppies should be vaccinated for parvo at 6 weeks of age.

I don't say this to call you out concerning your dog, but to say security is not an illusion. It is something that can be planned for and worked towards. Is my job mentaling fulfilling to me?...no. Is it fulfilling to me knowing what I am working towards is coming to fruition?....Absolutely. And it makes me feel very secure, which is a happiness onto itself.

 

My advice would be to stay in what you are doing. I am an engineer by degree, but what I do is trending towards management, finance and economics. People like yourself who have a degree in Econs and experience in finance, can generally work for any company, and if you are any good, generally fit the mold for senior management. The same cannot be said for IT professionals, unless they are working directly for an IT related company. It seems to me that most jobs in IT are in support roles for companies who's core business is something else (ie oil company etc.) The further you are from the core business, the further down the totem pole you are, and the less likely you are to be involved in important company decisions, and the more expendable you are.

No matter what the industry, Finance generally revolves very closely around the core business. I'm willing to bet you are privvy to fairly high level stuff. Don't underestimate the importance of feeling important.

I've often thought that I would like to work in sports, because I enjoy playing and watching so much in my spare time. But then I think, if it was my job, maybe I wouldn't enjoy it so much, and would have to find something else to do with my leisure time.

 

IT can be fun, but the buck stops there. Deadlines don't move no matter when you get the "specs" - loosely translated if you get any at all.

IT does have some security, but the security is in the resume. Check the papers and keep the resume current - you will always need to be learning the latest and most widely used. Sometimes the most needed skills are not the best (see MS for now), but if you want security in IT, follow the classifieds.

 

Have you considered doing some consulting type work to get experience on the side? Maybe within the same company?

Because you have so much autonomy, this may be plausible... and you could at least get a taste of the working life in IT.

Security is simply rated. ;o) It should be considered as a factor; most people forget that when they hear something that sounds amazing. At least you're doing that.

Have you considered taking a sabbatical for 3 months or so, and just going out and trying the IT stuff? Yeah, it wouldn't be a full break, but again, you'd get a taste that would hopefully result in you saying either "Yeah, I want to do it full time" or "Boy, I now appreciate what I have". In either case, you'll get rid of one of those possible regrets you have when you die.

AV

 

Don't want to go off-topic here, but my dog was vaccinated as a puppy and all her activity outdoors was tightly monitored (living in an apartment) but she got parvo anyway. And, I had taken her to the vet who had given her medication and fluids (parvo kills with dehydration usually). She died anyway.

Anway, besides my own advice, I think R104 has some of the best. See if it is possible to try the IT job out a bit without letting go of your old job. Would your company give you a leave of absence to get yourself together? Can you afford to do something akin to an internship?

 

JV:

I was trying real hard to not come across as insinuating you did not vaccinate the dog. Sorry if I sounded that way. My parents had a dog that contracted parvo (they thought parvo vaccine was 6 months, not six weeks), but they were able to save the dog. He lived 13 years.

 

Good book. The wealthiest people aren't always the ones who necessarily made the most money either, but often the ones who saved the most.

 

What makes you think your job is secure? You could get laid off next week. I've known people who worked 25 years at the same place and then lost their job.

No matter where you go, you are not secure unless you make your own security. If I had children, I would absolutely NOT change what I do. I would plan for it by saving plenty of money in advance and protecting my investments but I think hating my job for the sake of money is a bad influence on kids too.