I see what you are saying, but here are a few points to consider. West can not be considered by Cleveland to be that high of quality as you are suggesting, because he will be their 3rd PG now....that's why he is tradeable. They are not gonna expect to get a serious backup/potential starter for him when teams know that he is their third option now. Secondly, the suggestion about Wallace and Hayes was only for a specific particular defensive stop, not as a regular rotation. So in that sense, I don't think it is a bad thing for Cleveland if they are in a close game and need a defensive stop and can then call time out after getting the ball to resubstitue in better offensive players. I would not trade any of our major backup assets such as Shane, Landry, Barry, or Francis for anyone other than another all star PG, which I don't see us doing. I would only look to trade if we can get something that makes us better by using our expendable assets such as Hayes, Head, Harris and maybe Brooks. Other than that, I think we stay as is until the trade deadline and see how things are going.
Like which teams? I can see thinking this, but when you really stop and think about it, there are very few teams that fall into the highly talented but poor play from lack of continuity. Of the teams that underperformed the most last year, Dallas and Denver probably top that list...maybe with Phoenix in there as well. Denver - not playing defense has nothing to do with continuity. They lost int he first round before AI and lost after AI. Dallas had continuity and almost made it, but then started going backward as that continuity grew. They couldn't just sit back and hope every year their chemistry would improve and they'd eventually win. Same can be said for Phoenix. I'm not saying chemistry doesn't help...it clearly does. But talent is the key. See Boston. See Detroit winning by upgrading with Rasheed. Heck, see the Rockets second championship. Otis Thorpe was still a very very solid player when they upgraded to Clyde. Completely agree.
He can't play this season. That's why nobody has signed him. Once he can get on the court and participate in full contact drills and workouts then teams will take a look at hm.
Rafer runs the offense so well, that in the 4th when the game is tight, the offense starts and ends with tracy. You don't see any other player handling other than tracy. Now with Artest, Rafer will handle the ball even less. Now rafer is relegated to a standstill-spot up shooter. Now would you WingZo rather have West as that guy or rafer. All this run the offense better stuff is bs. That's not to be mean or not acknowledge rafer's inprovement, its just the truth. If u have a up and down fast break team, rafer is good in that sense, but the rox are a half court set type of team which is the worse for a guy of rafers skillset. Sub 40% shooting from all the open looks he gets is not acceptable. Now I was beating the drum for Artest awhile ago, and I'm doing it for west. If a team this close can upgrade a for sure weakness, then they should do it. Simply put, rafer is one of the worse starters on a 50 win team in the nba. I can't sugarcoat that any simpler than that.
Actually, we don't even win 50 games without Rafer, so your premise is already flawed. So if Rafer is so useless as you suggest, then why is it that we couldn't beat the Jazz with Bobby Jackson as the starting PG, when it was pretty obvious that we would have been able to beat them with Rafer (or at least force a Game 7... I'm pretty sure we would've been able to win Game 1 and/or Game 2 with a healthy Alston)? Ask McGrady or Adelman or JVG about Rafer's value. They would completely disagree with you. I would love to have Delonte West as a backup to Alston, but I don't think we have the resources to get him.
I'm not saying Rafer is useless, I'm just saying that the whole premise of getting rafer and swift a couple of summers ago was totally out of their element. Rafer is and always will be a run and gun type of pg. Asking him to be matt maloney or another spot up guy doesn't suit him. Now we can say Kenny Smith was like that, but kenny was a jumpshooter and was always a better athelete and finisher. In transition, smith could start the break and if need be finish it over the top, but Rafer is more of the initiator and distibutor type in that setup. He's not a stop and pop because he's a set shooter. In the close games, he hangs at the 3pt line and so now his weakness is really exposed. This "system" as people like to say is more designed for a off the ball combo type of scorer like Bibby and Porter was. That's the same as the triangle and that's why fishers and guys like that play well in it as opposed to traditional pg's who need to handle the ball. Rafer has a role, but he's more functional when he's the ball handler and decision maker. On this team, he's neither. When u have the chance to upgrade the spot, u do it. Lets not get it twisted, rafer functions at a level to which most rox fans deem acceptable because they don't have better. Its similar to chuck hayes and along comes scola and landry and the team is not just 3 wins better, but just better overrall. They have been trying to replace rafer, just like hayes. When u draft a pg, sign one and trade for one, ur trying to upgrade the guy. The thing about West is he's healthy, young and has some production unlike james,francis, and brooks.
When the game is tight and Tmac is handling the ball, I might take Rafer out and put in Barry. In any other case, it is clear the improvement Rafer is over Brooks of BJax, and probably most free agent PGs out there simply because he has played with this group of guys for 2-3 years already.
I certainly hope we make a run at Delonte West now that Pargo is off the table. The only other guard that I can think MIGHT be possibly in our reach would be Barbosa, which is even more unlikely than West. But you can never put anything past Morey these days. If the numbers weren't so far off, I wouldn't be surprised if he got Denver to agree to give up AI for Hayes, Head, Harris and Brooks; only to have the league let them know they won't accept it on numbers alone. But if he can get West or Barbosa for a trade like that, we should jump all over it. Unless Steve has a comeback year being the most improved player in the league, which I think is possible although many think he is washed up, we will hurt the most at backup PG this year; barring injuries. We all know that backup C and PG are our only weaknesses on this team as it stands right now. I think we can sign an additional unrestricted free agent C to help a little on this team without having to trade for it. I still think the Landry signing is holding up Morey from making his final moves for this team before camp begins. Let's all hope that is resolved sooner rather than later.
If Cavs sign D.West with MLE, then Cavs can't sign and trade him. Do the Cavs has West's Bird Rights?
I mostly agree except the wacked out view of Francis. Hayes, Head and Brooks have a lot more value than Francis. Francis is about a 2 mil expiring contract, but close to zero value as a player. I don't think West is all that great, and I don't think Cleve does either (traded for Mo W and signed Gibson--players with flaws themselves). But I think West is an OK back-up combo guard--I'd sure to take him. If we resigned Landry I probably include any two of Hayes, Brooks, Head or Francis for him. Well maybe Head or Brooks + Hayes is too steep unless we got a pick too.
A little late to your reply, but Lima Time put it nicely for me. Yes, I would rather have 40%+ shooting than 39+ shooting from the PG spot. BUT, Delonte shot 36.7% on 3s at 3 shots a game, making 1.1. 4.5 to 2 assist to turnover ratio. Rafer shoots 35.1% on 3s at 5.5 shots a game, making 1.5. Somebody do the math, so that big discrepancy of Delonte's 44% overall fieldgoal to Rafe's 39% obviously comes in other areas such as mid-range and close shots, which admittedly Rafer isn't very good at. However, this will be less of a concern this season because Rafer won't be relied on to create as much, so I really wouldn't mind if Rafe gives us another 39% shooting season if the overwhelming majority of his shots come from 3s, which at 35-36% isn't bad. And that brings us to the next point, Delonte West's career high in assist-to ratio is 2.42 during the '05-'06 season. This past season with Cleveland, he posted a 2.25 mark. Solid? Yes. But Rafer's career ass-to ratio stands at a superior 2.67. His worst season? 2.36 coming from his rookie season. With 3 moderate to high-turnover primary options on the team in Tracy, Artest and Yao, you need your PG to take care of the ball and set the offense up nicely. And that's where Rafe's value is. He gives you 2 3s a game at a 35% clip and takes care of the ball while averaging over 5 assists a game. That, IMO makes him a better starting PG than Delonte West would be for this team. Of course, West would be the ideal backup for Rafer, but as many have stated, we simply do not have the resources to get him without giving up key depth in other areas which are more important to the team than a solid backup PG.
We have very opposing views about Francis, so we will have to wait until the season and see who is right about that I guess. Other than that, we pretty much agree on this issue.
U can have rafer and his sub 40% shooting. There are ample mid range lanes open in this offense, yet a poor shooting guy like rafer keeps launching. What makes guys effective shooter/scorers is getting into your range. Late in games, rafer will be that spot up guy from somewhere on the court. He's ok when he's hitting, but that's 20 games a yr. Other than those 20 games, he's a 30% shooter. Now if ur pleased with that, that's you deal.
I'm not sure you got me there. The whole premise of my point is that Rafer's deficiencies will be minimised with the addition of Artest as a 3rd scorer and the improvement of Scola in his 2nd year. There will ample mid-range lanes, yes. But those are not shots that Rafer has to take. We have capable mid-range shooters in Artest, Tracy, heck even Yao, Battier and Scola can knock 'em in from midrange. And I'll be damned if Rafer does find himself having to take more pull-up midrange shots than open 3s. I'm sure this is a point that the coaching staff will bring across to him as well. Late in games, yes Rafer will probably be open somewhere on the court. My guess is it's probably somewhere behind the 3-point line. Where he shoots a respectable 35.7% for his career. And I'll almost guarantee you that if you take away the desperation 3s and 3s taken off the dribble, his catch-and-shoot percentage is definitely higher than 35.7%. So yes, I'll live with Rafer's steady hand, familiarity with the offense and his sub-40% shooting percentage IF he takes an overwhelming majority of his shots from either 3-point range, or point blank range while you continue to look for greener pastures elsewhere.
Delonte West wants $4-5 million per year. http://cavaliers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/78710881/m/9011088313
I think that's a reasonable amount for him. It's similar to what Rafer is getting, and they're about the same quality-wise, albeit slightly different in game. However, we still don't have the resources to get him, what with Landry, Mutombo and Dorsey all yet to sign and having only the MLE to work with. What COULD work is Luther Head + Steve Francis in a sign-and-trade for West, though I'm not sure why the Cavs would want another 2 undersized combo guards in exchange for one.
