Biden is a good pick but as other posters have noted he does have some problems with shooting his mouth off. Also his average Joe shtick sometimes wears thin, like Lindsey Graham's folky shtick, but he certainly does have the experience to shore up a major weakness of Obama. The other problem with Biden though is that he is seen as a partisan and a liberal. With the race tight, I just heard one poll has McCain ahead by 5% points today, I believe Obama would be better off with someone perceived as more middle of the road or even conservative.
but that's where the bankruptcy bill comes in as a positive. I do agree with the overall sentiment that he may come across as more liberal and he tends to shoot from the hip, but i also think he can help with a lot of union/catholic votes in that part of the country.
That is true that conservatives probably like Biden's position on the bankruptcy bill but I doubt that is enough to change the overall perception of him as being a liberal.
??? You're the first person I've ever heard describe Biden as particularly liberal. He was outspoken on Thomas and Bork but other than that I have no idea what you might mean by this. Biden is the picture of a moderate Democrat.
^ And he's been a fairly outspoken critic of many other Republican issues and the current Admin.. I agree that his Senate record is more moderate than people think, as are many Senators who are considered liberal or conservative, but in general Biden seems to be considered a liberal by Republicans and independents. I will admit I have no polling data on that but that has been my perception.
For what it's worth the National Journal has Biden ranked as the 3rd most liberal (3rd least conservative?) of senators based on 2007 votes. They have Obama ranked 1st. http://www.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/cons.htm?o1=con_composite&o2=asc#vr
The National Journal and their "rankings," (which always slide the nominee to the top spot), have been debunked in numerous other threads.
Being a critic of the other party doesn't automatically translate into extreme ideology. And who, by the way, hasn't been a critic of this administration? With a 28% approval rating, criticizing this admin is a centrist position. It's funny to me that you say Biden's record is "more moderate than people think," since you are so far the only person I've ever heard describe him as especially liberal. On what do you base this? On which issue has he been notably liberal? As for the National Journal ratings, they are BS as B-Bob said. I could easily tick off 15 senators more liberal than Biden.
I'm sure you can but as I say this is a matter of perception. For instance Hillary Clinton is considered to be an extremely liberal and divisive Senator, even by members of her own party, yet her Senate record shows her to be moderate and having worked across the aisle. I agree in terms of somesort of quantifiable measurement the National Journal's rankings fall short but what they do is express a matter of perception.
You might've missed my edit but I would say the National Journal backs up that perception, of Biden being a liberal I mean.
I just did a very quick search and found this which would reinforce the perception of Joe Biden as a liberal. http://www.ontheissues.org/Joe_Biden.htm I won't vouch for the methodology but since we are talking about perception I can assure I am far from being the only one with the perception of Biden as a liberal.
Based on what I know about Biden, I'd say this would be an excellent choice. All I've ever heard about the guy is that he's freakin' brilliant.
David Brooks on Biden: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/o...ion&adxnnlx=1219417649-LKT4myhoYf3cbYFSgAJ3Cg Hoping It’s Biden Barack Obama has decided upon a vice-presidential running mate. And while I don’t know who it is as I write, for the good of the country, I hope he picked Joe Biden. Biden’s weaknesses are on the surface. He has said a number of idiotic things over the years and, in the days following his selection, those snippets would be aired again and again. But that won’t hurt all that much because voters are smart enough to forgive the genuine flaws of genuine people. And over the long haul, Biden provides what Obama needs: Working-Class Roots. Biden is a lunch-bucket Democrat. His father was rich when he was young — played polo, cavorted on yachts, drove luxury cars. But through a series of bad personal and business decisions, he was broke by the time Joe Jr. came along. They lived with their in-laws in Scranton, Pa., then moved to a dingy working-class area in Wilmington, Del. At one point, the elder Biden cleaned boilers during the week and sold pennants and knickknacks at a farmer’s market on the weekends. His son was raised with a fierce working-class pride — no one is better than anyone else. Once, when Joe Sr. was working for a car dealership, the owner threw a Christmas party for the staff. Just as the dancing was to begin, the owner scattered silver dollars on the floor and watched from above as the mechanics and salesmen scrambled about for them. Joe Sr. quit that job on the spot. Even today, after serving for decades in the world’s most pompous workplace, Senator Biden retains an ostentatiously unpretentious manner. He campaigns with an army of Bidens who seem to emerge by the dozens from the old neighborhood in Scranton. He has disdain for privilege and for limousine liberals — the mark of an honest, working-class Democrat. Democrats in general, and Obama in particular, have trouble connecting with working-class voters, especially Catholic ones. Biden would be the bridge. Honesty. Biden’s most notorious feature is his mouth. But in his youth, he had a stutter. As a freshman in high school he was exempted from public speaking because of his disability, and was ridiculed by teachers and peers. His nickname was Dash, because of his inability to finish a sentence. He developed an odd smile as a way to relax his facial muscles (it still shows up while he’s speaking today) and he’s spent his adulthood making up for any comments that may have gone unmade during his youth. Today, Biden’s conversational style is tiresome to some, but it has one outstanding feature. He is direct. No matter who you are, he tells you exactly what he thinks, before he tells it to you a second, third and fourth time. Presidents need someone who will be relentlessly direct. Obama, who attracts worshippers, not just staff members, needs that more than most. Loyalty. Just after Biden was elected to the senate in 1972, his wife, Neilia, and daughter Naomi were killed in a car crash. His career has also been marked by lesser crises. His first presidential run ended in a plagiarism scandal. He nearly died of a brain aneurism. New administrations are dominated by the young and the arrogant, and benefit from the presence of those who have been through the worst and who have a tinge of perspective. Moreover, there are moments when a president has to go into the cabinet room and announce a decision that nearly everyone else on his team disagrees with. In those moments, he needs a vice president who will provide absolute support. That sort of loyalty comes easiest to people who have been down themselves, and who had to rely on others in their own moments of need. Experience. When Obama talks about postpartisanship, he talks about a grass-roots movement that will arise and sweep away the old ways of Washington. When John McCain talks about it, he describes a meeting of wise old heads who get together to craft compromises. Obama’s vision is more romantic, but McCain’s is more realistic. When Biden was a young senator, he was mentored by Hubert Humphrey, Mike Mansfield and the like. He was schooled in senatorial procedure in the days when the Senate was less gridlocked. If Obama hopes to pass energy and health care legislation, he’s going to need someone with that kind of legislative knowledge who can bring the battered old senators together, as in days of yore. There are other veep choices. Tim Kaine seems like a solid man, but selecting him would be disastrous. It would underline all the anxieties voters have about youth and inexperience. Evan Bayh has impeccably centrist credentials, but the country is not in the mood for dispassionate caution. Biden’s the one. The only question is whether Obama was wise and self-aware enough to know that.
The more and more I hear the experts saying it is Biden the more unlikely I think it is. At this point, the splash text message would be, yep, Time Magazine is right. With the exception of the press saying he would be just perfect, has Obama dropped a single hint that he even likes Biden? He has done so with Sebelius, Kaine and to a lesser extent Bayh. But unless I am missing something, he hasn't said squat about Biden. Picking Biden would say "I am an inexperienced elitist, who needs an everyman that has been in the Senate 30 years to back me up." Sounds way, way too much like Bentsen/Dukakis. Or was it Dukakis/Bentsen? Can't remember. I think Obama is too smart for that. Also imagine the McCain ads where Biden says that Obama isn't ready to be president.
what obama said is that he wants someone who won't say what he wants to here, yet someone who tell them exactly what they think, and of the potential picks, biden brings that to the table
He talked about Biden a few days ago in his VFW speech. As far as the text message splash, that's out the campaign's control. They aren't going to change their pick just because of speculation to increase the surprise factor - they have to pick whoever they think is best qualified.
