Thank you! Finally someone tried to right the track of this thread back to the topic. Let me shamelessly quote my own post here. I think all you guys are missing the point. You can't use one aspect of the game of a player to conclude whether he is tough or soft. You guys really need to learn to look at the whole picture when you need to draw a conclusion on something. Off my mind, I had only used 1 minute to come up with a few aspect to decide whether a player is tough or soft. (1) Toughness is the determination to play through injury. Some people think toughness is the courage to challenge shots. (2) toughness is the willingness to retaliate or foul hard to make other players think twice before they wander into the paint again. (3) toughness is not to back down from competition even though the chance of his team to win is next to none. (4) Toughness is to throw out thunderous dunks. Feel free to add on it. Just based on the above 4 criterias. I would grade Yao on each one from a scale of 1 to 5. (1) 5. Yao is known for not being hesitated to challenge a shot. I give him a '5'. (2) 1. yes, I agree. He needs to foul hard to make the 'and 1' worth the price. he scores a '1' in this. (3) 5. His national team has not much hope to advance in the Olympics. But he won't back down from the competition. He deserves a '5'. (4) 3. He threw down dunks sometimes. Granted it is much more often than when he first joined the NBA. But it's still not enough in some people's eyes. So I give him a '3'. So his average score is 3.5. And I conclude that he is above-average in toughness.
I forgot to say. My point is that you can't say Yao is soft just because he didn't foul hard or retaliate. It's just too naive to draw a conclusion like that. Fouling hard and retaliation is not everything about playing basketball. What about his other aspects of the game? What about his determination to play through injury? Look at the whole picture.
Everything about Yao is not soft but there are things about him that are. When I think of soft the #1 thing I think about is a players mentality or thought process when it comes to confidence and mainly getting the job done the best a player could regarding that players max potential. To me Yao is soft in that area. Physically he is doing what he can do I don't have a problem there. I have a problem with Tracy's and Yao's mentality when it comes to the things they say when they are quoted and how they settle for less imo versus truly having the confidence inside and showing that in application of doing everything it takes late in 4th quarters. I feel if they truly demostrated that the rest of the team would follow their lead in the respect of that and things would change for these players and the team when it comes to getting out the first round these past years. For example some guy asked Paul Pierce if he felt Kobe was the best player in the league and Pierce said No I believe that I am the best player in the league ( Everyone knows Kobe is better than Pierce) and that's the confidence and mindset I have to go into playing games in to compete to my upmost potential. that's the kind of mentality we need on the Rockets. Ron Artest have that and imo I don't see that in Tracy or Yao.
For further clarity on the contributor to society thing. The guy said he admired yao and can see that after he retires, he can be a contributor to society. Waiting till you're through playing and speaking up is the point I tried to make. After the checks are cashed and you're not in the spotlight as much, its easier to talk about changing stuff. I mean, you have benefitted from the perks, money, and pat on the back instead of standing in the cross hairs and taking the risk of monetary consequences. That's what the transcending people do. They take the risk when they have the most to lose. Ali lost a lot. Malcolm X, Marcus Garvey, JFK, and MLK lost their life. Marvin Gaye was boycotted as was the dixie chicks. I'm not going to say serving turkeys and and clothing kids aren't a big dealbut in the scope of the big picture, it has no risks. He doesn't have to wait till retirement for that photoshoot. Stepping away from the norm, risking losing endorsements and criticizing your government for wrongs is making your voice loud and clear. Deke built a hospital in his country while he is still playing using mos of his money and hustling the rest. How many schools, hospitals, or nurseries have Jordan built when he's made probably 8-10 times more money than deke. How many scholarships have Tiger given out? I'm not putting all societal ills on the atheletes and entertainers, I'm just simply saying Yao or other powerful people denouncing or speaking out about the genocide in Darfur will be heard across the bubble. I don't agree with the u.s. involvement in iraq and afganistan , but I support our troops and pray for them everyday. Yao is a smart guy and I'm sure he's read and know about China's involvement with the financial backing of the sudan government which is doing this genocide would be monumental, but he's silenced by the money like the others. Jordan,Tiger,Lebron,Kobe, Yao and others don't want to tip the apple cart. That's just the truth.
There isn't a formula like hollingers per or anything. Robinson played out of position and was small in comparison as far as weight. He played through injury and won 2 titles, but he's still considered soft. Players knew they could do anything they wanted to him and he would take it. They thought like this because in his early years, they tested him and took it then. I never said Yao had to start a fight or get a flagrant foul, but if its late in the game, you can't let guys get and 1's. Early in the game or in the playoffs, you can't let guys push you down, hold u, foul you hard and act like, "whatcha gonna do?" The refs call the physicall play sometime, but during playoff time, they let it ride. He's a good player and has shown he'll play with a injury and compete. What he hasn't shown is when the physical play starts, are you going to get to your position and move forward or are you going to get pushed off the blks by 10ft and shoot fadeaways to avoid contact? Is he going to challenge guys at the rim and put them on the ground, or stand with your arms in the air or try to draw a charge? We'll see.
A lot of what you said is true. But it still didn't change the fact that you have reached in your argument. Manhore has just said he believed Yao will become a contributor to society after he retires. Why does someone have to jump in politics and talk about an international event now in order to be a contributor to society. My point is clear and precise. If anyone has the goodwill to go to serve the homeless people during the special occasions, he can also be considered a contributor to society. He doesn't have to be a forerunner of the civil rights movement or to be assassinated in order to be one.
By the way, I think MD_In_Training has explained my point in a better way. Try to read his posts in the last page.
I've read every post in this thread just like I always do. I responded to the saying his admiration being a contributor to society as opposed to stuffing $100 bills in a strippers g-string. I said not to make his contribution into what MLK or Malcolm X contribution. I also said he's silenced by the money like all or most modern atheletes. Someone said it was ignorant because I didn't know the situation in Darfur. That was completely false because I'm a avid reader and know how to read through propaganda. I continued to say that you have to use your powerful voice when you have the stage. The guy started talking about turkey's and salvation army. I used the Ali analogy because he lost everything because he refused to serve a government that was being hypocrites. Lost his license to make a living, lost endorsements, had the rage of white america, and lost the prime of his life. He could have toed the line like Joe Loius, but he didn't. He could have been a good little negro and performed exhibitions, but he didn't. He could have served food to the military guys and smiled, but he didn't. If Ali had just followed along, then afterwards spoke out, how does that make him look? I was saying when you have the stage and the audience, that's when you deliver the punch, not after you've cashed 100's of millions, retires, and then speak up. That was my point about the modern athelete being silenced by money. So if you call me ignorant or you want to keep this going, u can always e-mail me leebigeztx@hotmail.com, and i'll be happy to discuss this with you.
Are you talking to me? Probably you are but I apologize if you are talking to someone else. Anyway, I never doubt your basketball knowledge. You are definitely not ignorant in basketball. But I called your argument that Yao will not be considered a contributor to society because he is not doing what MLK had done is ignorant. And I have repeated at least 10 times why I said so. And MD_In_Training has helped to explain my point too. I think I can safely assume that most of the people who has been reading this argument understand why I disagree with what you said. What else should I further elaborate?
Soft or not who cares, Not many centers are delivering 22pts 10 rebs and a few blocks a night. Yao is a finesse player not rough like Shaq or Howard. Hakeem was a finesse player too and he did well for himself. Ron Artest will bring some toughness to the team. The team is not going to be rough like the way Sloan coaches UTAH, we are more of a finesse team, thats good defensively.
Welcome to 2008, Yao do not get push around anymore, almost nobody can defend him one on one, the only best defense they have if to front him and sent help behind and that have change a little thanks to Scola making they pay for that strategy. D. Howard need tons of help to guard Yao he is suppose to be beast and a 6'7 Maxiell move him around like a little girl.
I personally don't consider Yao as soft, though I think he can toughen up in some areas. e.g. he needs to foul a little harder so they think twice about layups, NO LAYUPS. He should also foul players like Nate Robinson hard after they pull the block 'cr ap' on him. Anyways, aren't you the one who also calls TMac soft like 90% of the posters here? Lets try this criteria on TMac: 1 - TMac played through injury last season despite Yao going down. 2 - TMac doesnt foul hard, I guess he doesn't have to in the perimeter. 3 - Rockets had zero chances of winning a series against any strong teams without Yao last season. Yet Tmac played through his injuries and gave the Jazz a run for their money. He was the only one who showed up in the playoffs. Sure he didnt deliver in some of the 4th quarters, but if everyone can play great for all of 48 minutes with injuries, against very physical Jazz defense AND with barely any rest, they will all be Michael Jordan. 4 - Dunks? Yea TMac can do that, ask Shawn Bradley. Now based on your criteria, TMac is tough! I doubt you and other haters will agree though.
Rockza, I think you will probably say you were thinking about someone else and said sorry to me. But keep in mind that 'hater' is a very strong word. You should make sure that you have the right person before throw that name out.
you need to make that your signature. I think leebigez's point was obvious like white on rice. but you called it 'ignorant'. I posted why I think you completely missed the boat on what he was saying. but hey, if you want to keep replying. that's good, maybe you'll reach 15,000 just by replying the same crap over and over again!
BigEz, he's ignoring everything you write , he just wants to know if you can volunteer in serving soup in kitchens in san antonio.
I wonder why people are so sensitive about yao 6 yrs later? I mean Hakeem isn't my hero, my dad is, but I'd be the 1st to say hakeems game went down quick when he got married to that 17 yr old. I guess marriage to a woman half your age can drain u
