thanks for the link but all i can say is "ignorance is bliss" last i checked you guys arent exactly playoff bound and are stuck with some not-so-great contracts in cato, rice and moochie. i know we suck more, but that article is way out of line. the dude who wrote that article really doesnt understand the nba very well, yet he gets paid to write about it?
actually its weird now that i think about it. the article he wrote is almost word for word the general conception about the nuggets/trade of this bbs. maybe its a houston thing?
Actually, I think it's probably left over impressions from the Issel era. I'd imagine that people don't quite 'get' in their head how much he was their problem, and how much getting rid of him most likely helps. By the same token, I think that you guys probably have a little bit overly favorable impression of Kiki, at least given what has actually occured thusfar, but I guess that's understandable. Not that he might not be a wonderfull GM, but I guess most outsiders are probably in a 'wait and see mode'. Given that, I think you guys really shouldn't expect too many great free agent signings until, at least, Kiki has proven to be stable over the long haul. Question: Is Kiki making exclusive personel decisions, (exclusive of financial stuff which I'm sure Mr. Lurie still has final say on) or is there some sort of 'executive president' or 'chief operating officer' there to muck things up. Also, given Mr. Issel's fingerprints having been so firmly on everything for awhile, how much of the scouts, assistant coaches, and the like are still 'Issel guys'. Anyway, as is the case with everything, I wouldn't be so stressed out if people who aren't following the team closely are slow to see changes. The same thing happened here when we began to rebuild and people were still calling us the oldest team in the league.
hey, im not expecting any changes for over a year. im ready to wait and watch the nuggets suck for all of next season. 20 wins max (i hope). but you gotta admit, that trade he pulled at the last second, considering all the salaries he dumped and the lux tax and how much we were wining before, for a chance to have mcdyess and cap space in only a year - thats amazing. the # of teams that would even take the contracts we dumped were 3 at the most. at to only take back short term contracts which matched all that we dumped? wow. not bad for a first big move.
Will McDyess want to play for the sorry Nuggets when his contract expires? I thought I read somewhere that his contract ends at the same time as Duncan's. If we cannot win the Duncan sweepstakes could McDyess make a good consolation prize. At the very least he would not be dropping 40 and 20 on us.
Wrong. I'm the one that said it sucked. Still undecided. NugzFan was very for the trade when it happened. BTW Timing, gotta give you props, you were right about Nick the Prick.
NugzFan 02-21-2002 05:58 PM uh..yeah, that sucked. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29445 Sorry for you guys about NVE. We have some experience here with players acting that way and it sucks all the way around. Hell we had Vernon Maxwell walk out on us during the friggin playoffs!
i said it sucked like 2 minutes after it happened. once i understood what had actually happened i was ok with it.
we wont be sorry at that time. we will be on the upswing with an entire new team and a ton of cap room. duncan, kidds, and mcdyess are all FA in 2003 (if they all take their player options, which they will)
I can't believe I missed this the first time. That's fitting coming from the disgrace to this great board. Don't you just love that crap? Man, it seems like every year or so I get sick fo the attitudes and swear off the game only to be drawn back in. I still remember last year when the Lakers played in Denver. I got all the quotes I needed from the Nugs locker room, so I swung by the Lakers one. Well, Kobe Bryant (who had a poor game and blew a chance at the end to win) hid in the trainers room the whole time where we couldn't go. OK, oh well I figured. So after a few interviews I leave, and Kobe's walking down the hallway. This kid comes up to him and asks for his autograph. Kid is MAYBE 10, real polite, it was really touching to see. So what does Kobe do? He just stops, looks at the kid, turns and walks away without saying anything. I felt so bad for him. You could see he was crushed. Luckily, some other Lakers came out around that time and he got their autographs and a few Nugs wandered out too, but still. This game needs more Ryan Bowen's and Chucky Brown's.
Actualy, when I think of this trade, I don't attribute it happening to Kiki's incredible GM skills -- it seems to me that this is just another case of the Mav's taking on long term problems for short term benefits. Given that the Mavs have an established pattern of doing this sort of thing, I don't see how, if you approach it in non-Nuggs fan mode, that you can see this as something that many GM's could have done in the same situation when dealing with the Mavs. Again, Kiki may turn out to be the greatest GM ever, but dumping your talented, but flawed players on the Mavs is no big feat.
Ottomaton, yeah, that "long term problem" of Juwan's contract really hurt the Mavs. They just parlayed Courtney Alexander, Christian Laettner, Hubert Davis, and Etan Thomas for Raef Lafrenz and NVE. Damn those "long term problems." They just never work out.
Somehow Hardaway and Juwan Howard are going to make the Nuggets better than Raef and NVE? Are you anticipating a big free agent signing this year? How are the Nugz going to be an entire new team on the upswing in the next couple of seasons. If anything, the trade insured a downswing until Howard is gone at least. Don't be surprised to find them battleing for last place in the West with Memphis and GS next season.
(Man what's wrong with me... I'm defending the Nuggs) ...er, um... The idea is, that a good GM sees what the state of his team is and makes decisive, comprehensive moves which are aimed at furthering the team along in the cycle that is developing a good team. The bad GM's always make moves that make the team better in the short term, while the good ones are more concerned with maxamizing the cycles of players' careeers so that their team is poised to have everybody on the upswing when the team is ready to contend. There was no plan or blueprint to how these Nuggets were put together. They were more an assemblage of talent, than a cohesive team. Add to that the recent tirade by Van Excel, the eternal malcontent, which had the same effect as a bullet in the stomache in that the team would die a slow death due to internal bickering and malfeasance, while showing enough life to keep people from giving up on them. The team used Raef, whom they might not have resigned this offseason anyway, to bait the Mavs into taking Nick. Howard, I'll grant you, is an overpayed player. Unlike NVE, however, he wont poison the team from within. And, like MoT for the Rockets, Howard has some offensive versitility which might help team chemistry. He would probably even be worth resigning after his contract expires if he's willing to take a paycut. In any case, the Nuggets are free to accelerate the proverbial death that NVE was dragging them to, at which time they can do their best impression of a phoenix and rise again, confidant that their upward momentum can carry them forward.
I agree that in the long run, the Nugz might be better off for getting rid of NVE. I just think that they will take several years to show a marked improvment. If that is the case, then they will still be a very bad team when Antonio's contract expires. I think they will soon be seeing the same problem that the Bulls and the 90's Clippers had, their franchise seemingly covered in free agent repellant. We will have to wait and see. Wouldn't you agree though that their prospect do not look good next season, barring un unbielivable contribution from their draft pick this summer.
