the brewers trade was MUCH more of a joke, CC is actually legit....harden has pitched over 130 innings one freakin time in high entire career
This only sets up for Chicago's historical collapse in the post season. They are the Cubs, after all. All they need is a Steve Bartman type of incident to remind them that and they will fall part.
they gave up one of the top prospects in their organization to possibly only have CC for 3 months. the cubs gave up 4 brad ausmuses for Harden AND Gaudin, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that they retain harden if he finishes the year healthy.
So I guess he should have matched the Giants offer of $126M for Barry Zito? Or signed J.D. Drew to a $70M contract? Or Magglio Ordonez for $85M? Beltran for $119M? Should he have signed Adrian Beltre for $64M or Richie Sexson for $50M? Have those guys won a pennant for the Mariners? Should Beane have signed Andruw Jones to an $18M per year contract? Would that have catapulted the A's into the World Series? Can Oakland really afford to make an enormous blunder like giving Mike Hampton 8 years and $121M? Generally speaking, big name stars don't hit the market, and when they do, teams like the Red Sox and Yankees get into bidding wars, and a team like Oakland can't afford to give out huge deals for huge $$$s. And not so much because they can't afford to pay them, ala the Rangers with A-Rod, but because they can't afford to make huge financial mistakes. Imagine if Beane had decided to give Jason Giambi his no trade clause and signed him for $120M. Giambi's had some good years, but where would the A's be now? It's not that Beane's refusing to sign big name stars to stroke his ego; it's that he can't afford to give a guy like Soriano $136 million, and can't afford to make the mistake of giving a guy like Kevin Brown $105 million. It's not presumptuous, it just suggests a lack of research. Matt Murton DOES fit their system. He's a good player. Very good defense in LF, he gets on base, career .810 OPS. He's a solid player who's gotten off to a rough start, and he's just not needed with the Cubs, assuming Pie ever gets his head out of his ass. Patterson has tremendous speed and plays a great 2B. He's definitely got talent; not as much HR power as Corey, but he's a solid line drive hitter. He hasn't hit in his short time in the majors, but he's done quite well at AAA. He should be ready next year, he's gonna get a chance. Donaldson's a reasonably young catching prospect who's blocked by Soto and a kid who's playing in the Futures game this year. He had a good year in the minors last year and isn't off to a good start, but he's young and definitely more than a spare part. Gallagher's "ehhhh... okay". Fringy stuff, pitched well in the minors, so-so control. I don't like him, but he won Pitcher of the Year in his league in 2006. I didn't mention Gaudin because he's an okay middle reliever and a mediocre starter who wasn't gonna make a huge difference for the A's either way, especially once Joey Devine comes back. This wasn't a great trade for Beane, there are a lot of question marks, but I stand by my statement that he didn't get. He needed to get rid of Harden. Harden's shoulder is going to explode, and it'll probably be this season. The Cubs have seen this sort of thing with Mark Prior, and mark my words they're going to see it again. I'm not really going to get into this, because I get the feeling that you have a personal dislike for Billy Beane that isn't entirely rational. This is where I sort of agree. I think he could have held onto him a little longer and waited for someone to get desperate. My guess is that either the A's got spooked over Harden's diminished velocity in his last couple starts, or there just isn't much of a market out there for a starting pitcher who's NEVER HEALTHY.
That's part of their loathsomeness. So bandwagonny...so trendy...so WGN...so Michael Barrett....so obnoxious.
I knew you weren't perfect. But seriously, Michael Barrett, why is that a reason to hate them? They traded him right after he proved what a jerk he was. If getting behind a losing team is bandwagonny then by golly I hope the Rockets go 0-82 so the whole town will be behind them. What do you have against WGN? Harry Caray rules. Forever. You're probably just bitter like Milo was...
they suck. hate 'em. all of it. the whole schitck. the whole loveable loser thing. obnoxious. i find myself rooting for the freaking cardinals against them. they need to lose in monstrously hideous ways to make me happy. so i can point and laugh.
I thought this was an interesting dissection of the trade (which I found via mlbtraderumors.com): [rquoter] Harden versus Gallagher by Dave Cameron - July 9, 2008 · Filed under Daily Graphings When the A’s decided yesterday to trade Rich Harden to the Cubs for a package of players that lacks a guy that you could point to as a potential star, they knew they were giving up one of the most talented arms in baseball. When Harden’s been healthy, he’s been lights out, blowing opposing hitters away and reminding the world that he’s still a force to occasionally be reckoned with. Most of the reactions that I’ve seen so far are along the lines of “that’s it?”, expressing disappointment that the A’s dealt Harden away for what most see as a group of guys with limited upside. However, I think this deal makes a lot of sense for an A’s team that wants to continue to win in the near future while also solidifying their long term ability to compete. To show what I mean, let’s take a look at projections for Harden and Sean Gallagher going forward. Based on his performance when healthy, and his numerous issues that have led to extended time on the DL, most of the preseason projection systems had Harden tabbed for between 50 to 100 innings pitched and a FIP of between 3.15 and 3.99. He’s already been able to throw 77 innings with a 2.70 FIP this year (even though a good part of that is an unsustainably low HR/FB rate), so if we add this new information to what we knew heading into 2008, we’d probably project Harden going forward as something like a guy who will throw 100 IP per season with a 3.25 FIP. That makes him one of the league’s best pitchers for about half a season, which sounds about right. We knew a bit less about Gallagher, since the projections had to be built with the help of minor league data and a small sample of major league performance, but ZIPS and CHONE pegged him for a FIP between 4.9 and 5.1 over 120-140 innings while being unsure which role the Cubs would use him in. In 12 appearances this year (10 starts), he’s thrown 58 innings and posted a 3.98 FIP, so again, adding that new information and adjusting for the switch from the AL to the NL, we’d probably project Gallagher in Oakland for something like 180 innings a year with a FIP around 5.00. Harden is obviously the better pitcher, but we have to account for the difference in durability as well, so let’s add Harden’s theoretical replacement into the equation. The A’s are one of the best organizations in baseball at finding spare parts to put up solid performances in their rotation (their defense and home park don’t hurt), so let’s assume that Amalgamation Of Harden Replacements will make up the 80 inning difference by posting a 5.50 FIP, a tick or two above league wide replacement level. That brings the combined totals for Harden + Harden Replacements to 180 innings with a 4.25 FIP, compared to the 180 innings we were projecting from Gallagher at a 5.00 FIP. That’s a difference of three-fourths of a run per nine innings, which while significant, adds up to a grand total of about 15 runs over the course of an entire season. Fifteen runs, or roughly 1.5 wins - that’s the entirety of downgrading from Rich Harden to Sean Gallagher, based on the assumptions I made above. If you don’t like the numbers I used, feel free to plug in your own, but unless you’re very bullish on Harden’s health, you’re going to come to the conclusion that the swap will cost the A’s at most two or three wins between now and the end of 2009, when Harden’s contract expires. For giving up those two to three wins in the next year and a half, the A’s receive club control over Gallagher from 2010 to 2013 (his ‘08-’09 years are already counted above), control over Murton from 2008 to 2011, control over Patterson from 2008 to 2014, a potentially useful prospect in Josh Donaldson, and they save approximately $8 million in salary. The A’s sold two to three wins for four years of a guy who projects out as a league average pitcher, three years of a useful platoon outfielder, six years of a potentially useful utility player, a young catching prospect, and $8 million in cash. And they’re getting killed for it? If Beane spends the $8 million he saved on a free agent this winter, he’ll be able to buy back at least one of the wins he surrendered in this deal, and probably closer to two, erasing almost the entire difference between Harden and Gallagher just with the financial savings. Even if Murton, Patterson, and Donaldson are all busts, the A’s are still just about as good in 2009 as they were with Harden, meaning they picked up Gallagher’s age 24 to 27 seasons for free. I’m not a huge Sean Gallagher fan, as my rather conservative projection above shows, and after running through all this, but if I was the A’s, I still might have considered swapping Harden for Gallagher straight up. The fact that they got Murton, Patterson, and Donaldson as sweetner is just a bonus. This deal is a win for the A’s, even if it doesn’t necessarily seem like it. They don’t take much away from their 2009 team while making the 2010 to 2013 squads potentially a lot better. [/rquoter] The Cliff Notes: If you just analyze Harden vs. Gallagher, you really are only looking at 1 or 2 win improvement for this year and next year for the Cubs (unless Harden somehow manages to pitch 200 innings) and a long term net loss for the Cubs (several years of control of Gallagher, while Hardin's contract expires after 2009). The metric being that the value of a top of-the-line starter who pitches 1/2 a year vs. a middle of the rotation guy who gives you 200 innings really isn't that different a net effect on the outcome of your club. And when you add in the prospects beyond just Harden vs. Gallagher, the deal is a clear net win for the A's going forward beyond this year. As much as people here are talking about this deal as an amazing win for the Cubs, this article, and several others that I've read, seem to think it is a big win for the A's. I am not familiar enough with the players to make any sort of judgement of my own, but after reading many of these articles I am willing to take on faith the idea that unless Harden pitches 160-200 innings, this isn't such a great deal for the Cubs.
On a Houston sports board we have people asking why the Cubs suck?! What kind of upside down world is this? Nobody is asking why Osama Bin Laden sucks. I don't see anybody around here debating whether Creed sucks. The Cubs sucking is just a fact of life like blue water and green grass. Just accept that the Cubs and their fans are the biggest bunch of whining dogs this side of Utah.
I feel like a Jazz fan who just wandered onto this website and never knew that there was so much hate from Rocks fans. Why hate the Cubs? Max gave a completely logical explanation.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/diqm0GMFFYI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/diqm0GMFFYI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Lee Elia said it best.
One More...Marty Brennaman about the Cubs fans... <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ky9Kso9q_Ws&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ky9Kso9q_Ws&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
And you call yourself Christian? PreZygotic limiting factors would prevent this from happening. Obviously fake. Probably photoshopped or staged. That's a Sox fan who fell asleep around a bunch of Cubs fans. Brass? Obviously a crazy person.
twhy, where are you from? can you even point chicago out on a map? most cubs fans i've met are WGNers. they were watching the Jeffersons one day, fell asleep, and woke up to Cubs baseball. they subsequently became Cubs fans. these people exist on all 4 corners of this great country...they are a plague. the cubs has sucked for hundreds of years. these people come together to celebrate their suckitude. even if the planets align and the mayan calendar starts buzzing and leads to a cubs world series victory, the cubs will still suck. that's what they do. that's who they are.
I'm from League City. My Grandpa was from Chicago. He taught me how to play baseball because my Dad was from Germany and didn't understand it so good. We watched games together on WGN. I like the Cubs. Since I learned how to play.
I guess I'll give you that since you have a connection to the team through your grandfather. My grandparents were huge Astros fans, and that's a big part of my connection with that franchise.....OH AND ALSO BECAUSE I'M FROM FREAKING HOUSTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
