Bagwell, Biggio, Dierker, and lies

What exactly did Bagwell hit in the postseason this year?

 

How many times does it get called a strike? It wasn't bad last year, but Biggio got burned earlier in his career with the down and away slider and fastball getting called a strike. He's been swinging ever since. The strike zone is too wide and accurate pitchers like Glavine are too good to give this call to.

No developed opinion on the rest of the post.

 

.429 with 5 walks and only 1 strikeout

Of course, no runs or RBI's, but when Biggio isnt on base in front of you, and Hidalgo and Berkman and ALou arent hitting behind you, then that is kinda hard.

I've been saying it since the beginning - Bagwell's playoff problems were solely a result of no one getting on base in front of him, as they do in the regular season, and no one getting on base behind him either. The first few years, he struggled, cause he tried to be "the man" in the postseason. This past season, he, like us, probably got tired of it, and decided to just take the walks finally. The Braves knew no one was hitting behind him so they gave him a few pitches to hit, but not well, and he made a nice little average for himself as well.

Biggio has got to get on base in the playoffs for the Astros to win. It will take laying off that slider, cause even if it is called a strike 50% of the time, the pitcher will eventually try and come inside if you lay off it, but if you just keep swinging and missing they'll just pick at it. Other MLB players saw the same pitch(es) but performed better.

 

I think it's the slider from right handers that gives Biggio the trouble, Bagwell too. Any right hander who throws heat and has a good slider is going to shut them down.

 

Yeah, poor Jeff performed very well in the recent playoff series. This one wasn't his fault. This is a perfect case of a reputation clouding actual performance.

 

Glavine doesn't throw a slider. It was a changeup that made Biggio look like a fool. Chris Truby looked like a fool too with Glavines changeup. Infact everyone looked like a fool that day except our best hitter: Ausmus.

 

Where are they "crying about the public's perception of them having hire/fire influence over field managers?"

I scanned astrosconnection and I didn't see anything. Is this just a case of year-old sour grapes suddenly coming up to the surface or was there a reason for this thread?

 

Chronicle Article...

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/bb/1273113

<I>
KISSIMMEE, Fla. -- Craig Biggio was hunting in South Texas when Larry Dierker was let go as the Astros' manager last October. But Biggio and his good friend Jeff Bagwell never imagined it was becoming open season on them back home in Houston.

Because of their strong relationship with team owner Drayton McLane Jr., it was speculated nationally and locally that Bagwell and Biggio had forced out Dierker.

For years there had been rumblings that Biggio, who will set a franchise record in 2002 when he plays his 15th season for the Astros, called the shots in Houston. The Sporting News even proclaimed him the most powerful player in baseball last year, listing a few moves he supposedly orchestrated. Biggio, McLane and general manager Gerry Hunsicker have denied such a claim, but that theory grew big enough to engulf Bagwell as well last fall.


"Craig has quick thoughts on every subject in the world," McLane said. "That's part of his personality. But of the 10 years I've owned the club, we've never talked about baseball decisions."

Bagwell, 33, who will enter his 12th major-league season with the Astros, doesn't hesitate to defend Biggio and himself.

"(Biggio) gets shots taken at him that are unfair," Bagwell said, "because people don't know what goes on in our clubhouse and the amount of respect he has in and around the league. I do feel that I need to defend him, and he feels the same away about me. If you ask anybody who has played with us and left (to go elsewhere), they always mention us and how all we want to do is win."

Biggio and Bagwell were shocked by the backlash that followed Dierker's "resignation." Fans remember the pictures of McLane and Dierker standing 10 feet apart and looking at the floor during the news conference announcing Dierker's departure. Only two days earlier, the former pitcher said there was no way he would resign.

Asked if he resigned, was forced out or fired, Dierker says the conversation that led to the decision never got that far. Dierker says he doubts Bagwell and Biggio had anything to do with the decision to make a managerial change. While speaking with Hunsicker the day before the announcement, Dierker says he got the sense it probably would be hard for him to return.

"At that point, I felt like it would be hard to create a good atmosphere after our fourth playoff loss," Dierker said Tuesday from his home in Houston. "And to make a change, you change the manager, not the players. ... We came to a mutual agreement that the team would be just as well off if I didn't come back.

"I may be wrong, but I feel like if we had won that series in Atlanta, I'd be down there (at spring training) right now."

Dierker would have come back if he had been allowed, but he said he didn't protest or fight for his job when he discussed it with Hunsicker.

It was no secret Dierker had his detractors in the clubhouse, but he said the players never defied him.

"It came off like I said there was some open defiance, and I certainly didn't get that impression," Dierker said. "When we lost 92 games the year before, there were some rumblings, but it wasn't open defiance. Whatever happened, I can't say for sure. As far as (Biggio and Bagwell), they could have been the reason or could have been zero percent of the reason. I wouldn't know."

Whether Dierker had been the victim of a clubhouse coup, fingers were pointed at Biggio and Bagwell. The two were stunned.

They realize criticism will come their way for the team's postseason failures because they are the club's most prominent and popular players. But getting Dierker fired? Biggio felt blindsided by the insinuation, comparing it to the shock he felt after blowing out the ligaments in his left knee in 2000.

"I never saw it coming," Biggio, 36, said. "I go away hunting, come back and get a phone call from Baggy. He's like, `Are you hearing this?' I think it was totally unfair and totally false. We're being criticized for everything. All I know is that we went out and gave somebody -- I know me personally -- gave four out of the five best years I ever had. I went out and played with half a leg last year and went out and was criticized for stuff that wasn't true."

Bagwell also struggled with the backlash.

"It was not like somebody came down and said Bagwell and Biggio got the manager fired," he said. "I think it was just an opinion from somebody that got run so much that people started taking it seriously. I think that doesn't show enough respect for our organization to think Craig and I make all the decisions around here and would have that kind of power. Trust me, I've lost a lot of good friends over the years that if I had enough power would still be here."

Bagwell didn't want to drop names, but Mike Hampton, Moises Alou and Vinny Castilla are three of the players he probably would have kept if he were player-general manager with the keys to the budget.

"My compadre (Alou), Vinny K. (Castilla), I would have never let them go," Bagwell said. "I wish I had that much power. It's just not that way. The organization makes the decisions, not the players. ... People give us too much credit. If I had that much power to fire, I would have loved to have that much power to keep somebody."

McLane, Biggio and Bagwell confess to one mistake. If they could do it over again, they would have torn the "McLane" nametag off the locker between Biggio and Bagwell's at Enron Field that originally had been set up as a joke."A lot has been made that Drayton is our friend," Bagwell said. "Yeah, Drayton talks to us. He's signed us to a lot of money, and we've been here a long time. He's known us the longest out of everybody. It was a joke by one of the players, and it got turned into this big thing. Somehow Craig and I became the whipping boys in all this."

McLane resents the notion he allows Bagwell and Biggio to tell him what to do, but he laughed off the prank.

"It was just up there," McLane said of his `locker.' "After two or three days, everybody forgot about it. I didn't even think it was up there. It was a good joke all of us laughed about."

But it proved not so funny.

"Instead of ripping it down after the joke was over, it stayed up there," Biggio said. "Then, all the people that came in, they saw it day in and day out, day in and day out. Then they just started to think and assume things for themselves. That was the whole thing. I guess the mistake of the whole thing was that it should have just been ripped down from the beginning."

Many fans wanted to know why Biggio and Bagwell weren't more active in keeping players in line if they weren't doing what Dierker wanted.

"I know it's hard to complain when four out of five years you make the playoffs and guys have tremendous years all around," Bagwell said. "Sometimes Larry says things off the cuff that maybe offend people. But it doesn't offend me or make me upset or anything like that. I know that four out of five years we gave it our all. It wasn't good enough. We couldn't get past the first round."

Added Biggio: "All I know is that everything that was called upon for me to do, I did. Whatever he wanted me to do. I loved playing for the guy. He was an easy guy to play for. He penciled your name in the lineup, and you went out there and played. I didn't understand some of the things that were said. Anything that was asked for us to do, we did. I know I did."

With that said, it's hard to decipher if Bagwell and Biggio thought the team needed a managerial change. Just like their fans, they were frustrated by the Astros' failure to get past the first round while reaching the playoffs four of the last five years.

"So much has been made out of this whole thing with Larry," Bagwell said. "I know he was a big figure in the community. I know he's a big figure in the Houston Astros. But it's just what baseball is or any sport is. It's not Larry's fault that we didn't win all those games. It's our team's fault."

Bagwell and Biggio realize they received much of the backlash because Dierker is such a beloved member of the community. Surely, Hunsicker will get ripped dearly if he mistreats Bagwell and Biggio. Nonetheless, Bagwell used new manager Jimy Williams as an example that good managers are fired all the time.

Under Williams from 1997 until he was fired last August, the Boston Red Sox "went to the playoffs a few years and were right around first place in the wild card last year, and he's fired in the middle of the season," Bagwell said. "These things happen. It's part of the game, whether it was right, whether it was wrong or whether who wanted him or who didn't want him. It just happens. That's just what goes on."

Biggio and Bagwell vehemently say they respect, appreciate and like Dierker. Why then, did it seem Dierker failed to garner credibility in the clubhouse? Was it because the Astros plucked him out of the broadcast booth? Was it because he was never an every-day player?

"Sometimes it's a little bit more difficult for somebody to understand what it's like to play every day when they never did it," Biggio said. "I'm saying that with any pitcher. You start 35 times a year, you have no idea what Jeff and I put our body through day in and day out. I don't think anybody does. The only people that really understand are the guys that go out and do it every day and year in and year out."

Through it all, this winter has left Biggio and Bagwell feeling unappreciated at home, where the expectations will be high.

"Craig and I have chosen to spend our entire careers here," Bagwell said. "We've given our heart and soul to this organization. And if you look at the years we've been to the playoffs, Craig and I have been a pretty big part of getting us there.

"To bash us totally for everything that's happened here, I think we've done some great things here. If you say do I feel if I'm a little underappreciated, I think we are a little bit just because of what we've given to this city and to our organization. We've devoted our entire careers to one organization. How many people say that? Look at all the people around baseball who leave every time there's big money out there. Craig and I have never said that. I think that says something about us and what we feel about the city and the organization."

Bagwell and Biggio not appreciated? Bagwell catches himself and points out why it has all been worth it. The wounds they felt this winter won't heal quickly, but Bagwell smiles when he remembers what his No. 5 jersey and Biggio's No. 7 jersey mean to the people of Houston.

"When I look in the stands and see every little kid with a 5 or a 7 on the back of their jerseys," Bagwell says, "that's when I know that we're not underappreciated. And that's what matters to us."


</I>

 

Bagwell is the master of the 8th inning single when the Stros are up or down 9-2.

 

Yeah, why does he even try. I can't think of a time he ever got a hit that contributed to a win.

 

Why would Biggio and Bagwell favor a manager like Jimy Williams over Larry Dierker?

Maybe they don't have as much influence as we think...

 

What an absolutely idiotic comment.

 

my thoughts exactly!! you don't have as many career hits, runs, RBI's, and homeruns that Bagwell does without having a good number of them "mean something."

the Bagwell criticism is so ridiculous...this is a guy who is clearly one of the most consistent performers in the majors, and he takes soooo much grief....if he were a bad guy, i'd understand that...but he's a good citizen and his era of Houston Astros baseball has been the best in franchise history.

 

gr8-1 is right. Bagwell doesn't really get as many RBI's/HR's when it matter as you would think. His BA sucks in the clutch, while his OBP is high, because he does get walked a lot in clutch situations.

Last season was probably Bagwell's most clutch season that I can remember.

The playoff failures can be attributed to Biggio failing to bring his jock to the playoffs.

Getting the first batter on base is vital in the postseason, more than the regular season when you have to manufacture runs, as well as the fact that the pitcher can't rare back and throw his best stuff with a runner on. When you have Randy Johnson or whatever ace on the mound with no one on, good luck.

Biggio probably played a large role behind Dierker being ousted.

He wasn't named the most powerful player in baseball by TSN, for nothing.

Biggio used to be my favorite player, until I realized what an egoholic he is. Not to mention that he hasn't made a clutch play in years.

I was really hoping somehow the Astros could unload Biggio and his ego (they combine as 2 players) for anything in return.

 

Dierker lost his job for one reason, and one reason alone : Mike Jackson instead of Octavio Dotel.

That's it.

Not Biggio(consistently one of the top leadoff men in the game).

Not Bagwell(when he retirs will be the best first baseman not named Gherig, ever).

Dierker lost the job because of his strange preference for Mike Jackson.

 

<B>His BA sucks in the clutch, while his OBP is high, because he does get walked a lot in clutch situations.</b>

Hmmm..

Nobody On: 0.267 AVG, 0.361 OBP, 0.531 SLG
Runners On: 0.311 AVG, 0.433 OBP, 0.608 SLG
RISP: 0.344 AVG, 0.461 OBP, 0.716 SLG
Bases Loaded: 0.385 AVG, 0.438 OBP, 0.923 SLG

(Bases Loaded has a small sample size of only 13 AB)

P.S. - these are last year's stats. His 3-year stats ('99-'01) shows the same trend with different numbers and a much larger sample size, of course.

To be fair, though, he HAS struggled in "Close And Late" situations, batting 0.257 & slugging 0.478 over the last 3 years (about 250 at bats).

 

Major-All I was referring to was clutch situations, as his "Close and Late" stats would confirm.

Obviously he does great before close and late, if his overall stats are good.

Bagwell's low BA is attributed to not getting crap to hit, which is why his BB's are so high. If Bagwell didn't bother to swing the bat at all, he would probably draw a walk 70% of the time in "close and late" situations. The low BA comes from trying to hit bad pitches because he's anxious to drive in some runs.

One thing for sure is that the Astros playoff failures begin and end with Biggio.