NBA Champion Tom Thibodeau on Charles Edward Hayes Jr.

How important is he really, if he sits behind two PF's that most would consider average at best?

No one is saying he is worse than Novak. But like Novak, his sucktitude on one side of the court keeps him off the floor, no matter how good he is on the other side of the court. Hence his new role in the "one-dimensional, you get minutes in the right moment" club.

 

Chuck is what he is, a talented defensive player who's playing time is limited by his weaknesses on the other end of the floor. It's a damn shame he can't hit a jumper or FT because he'd be a starter if he could. He'd be our own Haslem with even better team D. Instead, he's on the level of talented swingman JR Smith. Smith can do everything relating to offense on a very high level, but is so horrible defensively that it almost doesn't matter.

I think that's the problem with some of Hayes' supporters; they fail to see that he almost doesn't matter. His net effect is practically zero. If he were on Rodman's level of defense/rebounding we could talk, but he's not even our best team defender, that's Shane. I love him as injury insurance and like him as second unit depending on the personnel, but he can't be big time.

 

JVG: When Hayes is on the floor, we dont have enough offense.

Enough said.

 

Couldn't agree more about Dorsey. I'm excited that we drafted him, and i do think he'll end up making the team; however, it would be insane to assume that Dorsey will make Chuckwagon irrelevant. I hope he does, cause that would mean that Morey has a real talent for finding UDFAs and 2nd round picks that can contribute, but the odds have to catch up to us at some point.

It's not easy to find a Chuck Hayes or a Carl Landry where we found them. Don't expect that to be the status quo. Dorsey will have to go a long way towards proving himself if he wants to make this extremely hard working roster.

 

Interesting.

Good defense, hustle/engery, hard-workinng & professionalism with little to no offense...

Makes you wonder....is Chuck Hayes a poor mans Shane Battier or is Battier a rich mans Chuck Hayes???

 

Yao was hurt during the win streak, right? Come on man...anyone who watched the games knows that once Scola became the starter, and once Landry started playing well (pre-injury)...they took his minutes and he was our 3rd string PF. Injuries to Yao and Landry got him more PT. If we enter next season with our roster as is, then he would get minutes behind Scola and Landry again.

I don't care how much y'all or coaches rave about his "arguable" impact on defense. The bottom line is that our team would rather put two other PF's on the court before him. That is his value.

 

After all-star break, Hayes will be behind Dorsey too. I guarantee it.

 

It's not the first time that Jonathan Feigen has written about raves Chuck Hayes has received from other basketball people around the league. There's a lot of appreciation for the "little things" he brings this team. When a player is so deficient as a ball-handler and scorer, he must have a pretty special talent to remain a useful rotation player on a good team.

I think that's what makes Chuck such an interesting, unique player in my eyes. Yeah, when you look at the entire package he isn't a starter on the vast majority of teams in this league, let alone a star. But he happens to be very good at things the does well. That type of things sticks out with coaches and scouts. He also happens to be very poor at the things he doesn't do well, which apparently stick out even more on this board.

 

the first thing that comes to mind after reading what you wrote (which i agree with) is a little blurb from Morey himself about Hayes. I'll paraphrase because I don't have it in front of me, but it went something like this:

"Chuck is probably a top 5 defender in the NBA. he has the quickness, strength, and intelligence to guard just about anyone. he's an effective rebounder, who works hard, and covers up for a lot of his teammates mistakes. of course, he HAS to do all that to stay in the league with the deficiencies he has in other aspects of his game . . . "

 

There's really a fine line of how we classify Chuck Hayes...

He has no offense... but has great defense

He is very undersized... but very strong

Chuck as a starter hurts us on offense... but Chuck off the bench helps us with defense and energy

He struggles with certain teams that are longer... but he doesn't have to play every night

He can't handle the ball... but he rarely turns the ball over and is a good passer

He's no scoring threat... but he does move the ball on offense, helps the team get into their sets, and plays almost mistake-free

He's a third string PF at this point... but can still get minutes every now and then for defensive reasons

He's a solid specialty player off the bench... but also he's a "trade-able" player right now

 

Or Fabricio Oberto, Kendrick Perkins, Bill Wennington, Will Purdue, Scott Pollard, etc. And of course, the worse skilled player of all time that has ever played in the NBA and contributed to a contending team. You guessed it! Flyin' Ryan Bowen!

I would take Chuck Hayes over these guys any day of the week. Hayes is more than a situational player unless there are two players in front of him that have more talent and work just as hard as he does, which we are lucky that this is the case. The offense vs. defense debate will always be around but for those of us that actually admire great defense and watch it, we know who the most underrated Rocket is. Let’s just hope we keep him or can upgrade some how because I really like the depth he provides us especially if we lose Landry. Hayes is a 20+ min. rotational player in this league and there shouldn’t even be a comparison to players who haven’t played any real minutes in the league yet.

 

Quick, Morey. The Celtics are willing to give us anything for Chuck Hayes.

Seriously, I agree that Hayes is under appreciated on this board. However, his usefulness dropped as Scola's and Landry's rose. If Landry leaves, we got to keep Hayes, no kidding. If Landry stays, I am willing to trade Hayes for upgrading our backup swingman or PG.

 

All of those dudes could make wide open shots if you left them completely wide open. You just couldn't ignore them on offense. Since Hayes can't seem to do a simple thing like dunk (considering his height and jumping ability), he is worse than all of those dudes on the offensive end.

Ok, well I just noticed Ryan Bowen is on your list. He doesn't get PT either.

And please never compare Hayes to Rodman again in life. Hayes is a defender that will make folks work, similar to Battier (although he isn't as good as him IMO). He isn't going to shut anyone down. Rodman is in that elite class of defenders that you could stick on folks and they would get nothing (i.e. Hakeem, Robinson when not facing Hakeem, Pippen, Artest, etc). Hayes is not on that level defensively....and Rodman could make wide open dunks.

 

Do you know why Tom Thibudeau didn't get a head coaching job, and why you hated watching JVG's playing style?

Bingo, a total focus on defense and not enough on offense. The fact about basketball game is players have to play both sides, offense and defense. I, for one, believe that it is easier to teach a player defense than to teach them offense. So, as much as I love Chuck Hayes, don't know if he can ever learn offense.

 

Scolandry are eating up almost all of Chuck's minutes. We need Landry on the floor more. I love Chuck's defense and hustle, but, as everyone knows, his offense sucks. If Tibbe loves him so much trade him to Boston for a re-signed Posey.

 

If Hayes is so valuable as many of you claim, how come no team out there has shown interest in acquiring his services?

 

I kinda compare Hayes and the Rockets to Bruce Bowen and the Spurs (not saying Hayes is as valuable as Bowen). But both are a product of the system that they are under. Bowen is one of the best defenders in this era, but if he were to join another team, he would suck. There would be no Duncan to give him that open corner three and he'd be too much of a liability on offense. Same thing for Hayes; he wouldn't be as effective on another team other than the Rockets.

 

and finally the voice of reason!!

 

how do you know that no other team has shown interest?