Why Is Metro Not Building The Light Rail On the Freeways?

Hippieloser · Jun 19, 2008

rodrick_98 said:

and hilltopper, you don't own a car?
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Were you talking to me? No, I don't own a car. Haven't for over a year now. That's not to say that I don't ever want or need one, but I've been making do.

astros148 · Jun 19, 2008

GuerillaBlack said:

Where are you going to place the track? People have this fantasy proposals.

First, if Sugar Land wants commuter rail (you use commuter rail in this situation, not light rail), then it needs to fork over money to METRO. For now, Missouri City will be getting the light rail.

And you know what, I'm just going to post the maps:

Phase II:

Phase III:

http://www.ctchouston.org/information/factsheets/railexpansion/railexpansion2.shtml

All are light rail. The black dashes are commuter rail.
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thats not happening for a long long time

Hippieloser · Jun 19, 2008

astros148 said:

thats not happening for a long long time
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Phase I is set to be complete in 2012. If we survive the apocalypse, it's on the Phase II. That is kind of a long time, sure, but how long have they been working on I-10W? And they weren't starting from scratch there.

Rocketman95 · Jun 19, 2008

Hippieloser said:

Phase I is set to be complete in 2012. If we survive the apocalypse, it's on the Phase II. That is kind of a long time, sure, but how long have they been working on I-10W? And they weren't starting from scratch there.
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I-10's way ahead of schedule, IIRC. I think it's supposed to be completely done in October.

MadMax · Jun 19, 2008

Rocketman95 said:

I-10's way ahead of schedule, IIRC. I think it's supposed to be completely done in October.
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i can't remember exactly when...but it's definitely ahead of schedule...by a lot, I think.

Hippieloser · Jun 19, 2008

That's awesome, I'm not saying they shouldn't have redone I-10 or that it took way too long, I'm just saying that it wasn't built overnight.

GuerillaBlack · Jun 19, 2008

astros148 said:

thats not happening for a long long time
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The first one you see, Phase II, is for 2012. The second, Phase III, will happen in phases from 2015-2025.

You can't build everything at one time, and once our system is basically complete, it will match DART's system by 2025 as well.

GuerillaBlack · Jun 19, 2008

Hippieloser said:

That's awesome, I'm not saying they shouldn't have redone I-10 or that it took way too long, I'm just saying that it wasn't built overnight.
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They should have redid I-10 (like you said), just not the way they did it. A tollway is so shortsighted.

Rocketman95 · Jun 19, 2008

GuerillaBlack said:

They should have redid I-10 (like you said), just not the way they did it. A tollway is so shortsighted.
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I don't think I have the details exactly right, but I think only two lanes are toll, one HOV in each direction and then five (or four) lanes of regular traffic. I think this is the first freeway of it's kind and I honestly think if they weren't going to add rail, this was a great way to do it.

GuerillaBlack · Jun 19, 2008

Rocketman95 said:

I don't think I have the details exactly right, but I think only two lanes are toll, one HOV in each direction and then five (or four) lanes of regular traffic. I think this is the first freeway of it's kind and I honestly think if they weren't going to add rail, this was a great way to do it.
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Do you know how much it is going to cost to use the tollway?!

They were going to add rail, but Culberson and Daley successfully stopped it. It was going to be this: four mainlanes each way, one HOV lane each way, and commuter rail down the middle.

People in Houston need to stop having orgasms over wide freeways. No one is going to use this tollway outside of rush hour traffic. Whereas, commuter rail would be used at all times of day, including the weekends. Why? You don't have to drive...

Cities like Boston, Portland, San Francisco, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Jose, Dallas, Chicago, St. Louis, Miami, Atlanta, New York, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Charlotte, Denver, Washington DC, Baltimore, and Cleveland must all be doing something right. They all have more miles of rail transit than Houston does.

rodrick_98 · Jun 19, 2008

Rocketman95 said:

I don't think I have the details exactly right, but I think only two lanes are toll, one HOV in each direction and then five (or four) lanes of regular traffic. I think this is the first freeway of it's kind and I honestly think if they weren't going to add rail, this was a great way to do it.
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it will only partly be hov+toll. i have read somewhere about the 3+ free lanes, but i'm not sure how that coincides with the other HOV lanes.

rodrick_98 · Jun 19, 2008

GuerillaBlack said:

For example 35 South has just one.
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it lasts what? like 2 miles tops? it's clear sailing in either direction for something like 15 miles.

rodrick_98 · Jun 22, 2008

from today's chron
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/5849726.html

Seize this mass transit moment, Houston

By COUNCILMAN PETER BROWN
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

Since the late 1970s, the unfortunate controversy of highways vs. rail has polarized Houston politics. With plentiful land and cheap energy, we became the "happy motoring" paradise of the nation — until recently. Our region's sprawling highway system has not reduced congestion. Worse still, it encouraged the flight of city jobs and residents to the suburbs, diminishing the city's economic life.

A fundamental challenge for city leaders, amidst escalating energy costs, is how to address congestion, and capture a larger share of the region's growth. Development along rail transit corridors, appealing to a new generation of commuter-weary wannabe urbanites, may be the answer.

The Katy Freeway expansion taught us a bitter lesson about something called eminent domain. Without alternatives to massive highway widening to accommodate some 1 million new residents per decade, Houstonians are faced with an unprecedented taking of private property.

Eminent domain destroys homes, businesses, disrupts entire neighborhoods and depletes our tax base. In a city where property rights, market economics and personal choices are core values, that kind of government intrusion will not be tolerated.

Yet some still believe that more highways are the answer. There is even talk in Houston political circles about dismantling our rail system, weakening the Metropolitan Transit Authority, shifting the dollars to highways or to low-cost buses for the transit-dependent. Given the energy crunch, attendant flooding and air quality problems, the threat of eminent domain and the inefficiencies of highway sprawl, this would be folly.

Experts now agree that we cannot build our way out of congestion by simply pouring more highway concrete.

Mayor Bill White has taken a number of steps to improve mobility — from "Safe Clear" and the timing of traffic signals to "flex" working schedules, vanpooling and working with Metro to improve bus service and to expand light rail transit, a move favored by more than 80 percent of Houstonians. Last week, the Houston City Council approved, by a 13-2 vote, the consent agreement granting Metro authority to construct the $2 billion-plus, 28-mile, next phase of MetroSolutions. This is a decisive step — a strong message — that Houston is committed to rail transit. But to compete globally, we need to go much further.

Major world cities are making huge "smart" investments in carefully planned, pro-growth rail systems. The transit menu includes conventional streetcars and subways, fast commuter lines, 180- mile-per-hour bullet trains and even higher speed mag-lev lines, such as the link between downtown Shanghai, China, and its airport. The European Union, with sleek, high-tech trains linking just about every major city, is a model for transportation efficiency, with one-half the per-capita energy consumption as the United States. This is a significant competitive advantage.

More than 30 U.S. cities are expanding rail transit. Houston needs to play catch-up — we are already woefully behind even Atlanta, Dallas and Denver. Rapid transit has become a basic requirement to compete in the global economy.

On a recent flight abroad, I listened to a talkative business executive, who explained to me, "Houston is a great city to do business, very friendly, but if you expect to compete worldwide, you better have a high-speed train from downtown to your airports, and soon! That's what every international businessman expects, like you enjoy in Atlanta, San Francisco or Paris."

Maybe we need a plan, I thought? Here is my agenda for competing in the global marketplace:

• A coordinated transportation and development plan: The city of Houston, Harris County, and its toll road authority, Metro, the Texas Department of Transportation and the Houston-Galveston Area Council should complete, within the next three years, a consolidated 20-year "smart growth" general development plan, with adopted policies and priorities. This plan should focus on sustainable growth, multimodal transportation choices (including bikeways, fuel-efficient "smart" buses and walking), more compact development and energy conservation, on the assumption that gasoline prices will continue to double every four to five years.
Thanks to White's vision, the city has a good start. This year we will complete the first comprehensive Houston Mobility Plan since 1940!

• Expanded rail transit/transit-oriented development: Expand MetroSolutions to include high-speed connections to our two airports and at least five commuter rail lines, starting with U.S. 290 and a Downtown-Clear Lake-Galveston line, by 2020. Significant increases in federal funding for rail transit are a reasonable assumption. To capitalize on the growth potential, the city should enact basic standards for higher density, walkable, mixed-use development along these transit corridors and at major employment centers.
• High-speed rail: It is time to think ahead and get very serious about the "Texas T-Bone" — the Bullet Train — traveling at speeds of 180 mph, connecting Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth and Austin-San Antonio. The Texas High Speed Rail Transportation Corp. is already in-business, but lacks critical state funding. Imagine boarding a bullet train in downtown Houston and arriving in Dallas an hour and a half later. Linking our major urban centers with high-speed rail would make Texas a global economic powerhouse.
Underlying the highways vs. rail debate is the need for a reality check — a basic change in public policy — away from haphazard sprawl and toward sustainable patterns of growth. Business as usual will relegate us to more of the same — more congestion, inefficient sprawl and the highest transportation costs in the nation (yes, that's right; it costs more to travel in Houston than in any other city).

The good news for Houston is that pocketbook decisions are changing our driving habits. Tired of commuting and high travel costs, more people are moving back to the city. The pendulum is swinging back to urban living and rail transit. Houston enjoys another benefit — no zoning to curtail innovative urban design appealing to new lifestyle preferences. With bold and decisive leadership, a good dose of smart planning and outcomes-driven development standards, Houston can become a leading transit city in the emerging global economy.

Brown, a third-generation Houstonian, is an architect and urban planner and is serving his second term as an at-large councilman on Houston City Council. He can be e-mailed at atlarge1@cityofhouston.net.
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