Is African American slavery "irrelevant"

To be American is to acknowledge that slave labor built this nation right along with the blood and sweat of idealistic immigrants. From the tobacco fields that made Jamestown profitable, to the identity of Southernness that persists today and almost ripped this country in half. We're so willing to be wed with the strongest virtues of our country that we forget how they became virtues. Talk about heritage and tradition all you want, but without knowing the history behind it, all the talk are rationalizations for entitlement that's neither earned nor deserved.

America was in a state of denial for a hundred plus years after Emancipation. That denial could be considered just as egregious because a person with a superficial overview of America's history will assume that Blacks had the choice of their oppression and "personal destinies" as opposed to having no choice of being slaves. The 300+ year period of slavery included the systematic destruction of native family, culture, and language. While some Americans can pride themselves as a 7th generation Texan or a "Son of Liberty", the lineage blacks have is starkly different. Black family trees are uprooted at a certain point with scribbles filled in the blanks.

Immigrant families, even African immigrants, don't share that kind of history. Their history is at least consistent with a solid grasp in their roots and their cultural values. Black Americans, otoh, have lived under dual cultures: a prevailing one, which for the majority of this nation's history considered them inferior to be involved in the greater order while exploiting their labor, and another, a fledgling culture struggling to make something unique in its own under the pressures of an oppressive society that gave them no breaks and no hope. It was only recently that many things have changed through higher living standards across the board, but the American public, as a whole, are expecting Blacks to evolve in social revolutions through magical cure-all bullets.

Do people really think 40 years is enough time to forget and forgive the grievances of African Americans? Would you like starting a race with a minute penalty, while knowing that lost time benefited other drivers? Reparations are a logistical and a pragmatic nightmare, but the fact remains that people and institutions benefited immensely from with slave labor and passed it on through inheritance. It's a damn shame some people can't come to grips with that point because of a fear of being punished or some personal principle of how his immigrant family is innocent of the products derived from slavery.

While the times are much better than it was before, the hint of progress doesn't mean that we've totally overcome one of our nation's greatest sin. A discussion about this could be a sign that we're getting there, but a flippant dismissal that slavery is insignificant is more to relieve a person's obligation of the cultural debt tallied against the American identity.

 

This is a very underrated point.

Opponents of, say, affirmative action always point to successful blacks and go "see? That black guy is successful. I'm successful. Why can't you be? You just have to stop making excuses and work hard."


Uhhhhhhh... no.

Ask yourself: "what 'hand-outs' have I been given? Did my parents bring me up in a good area, so I didn’t have to worry about high crime rates? Was money not an issue in my household, so that I did not need to work long hours as a young man or woman to help pay the bills? Did my parents not have to work overtime to get by? Did I get to go to an excellent middle school? Did I get to go to a top high school? Did my parents help me pay for college?" I answer "yes" to all those questions. Those things are ALL "hand-outs" that a lot of privileged, middle-class white people take for granted, and they are ALL things that many minorities do not have.

Does that mean privileged middle-class white people never learned how to work hard? No, it doesn’t. But it DOES mean that if you take one person who has all those things and one person who doesn't, and have them interview for the same job, guess who's more qualified? Guess who's gonna get hired? Guess who's gonna hafta go work at McDonald's instead?

Point being: blacks have been kept down for a very long time. Even if racism completely ceased to exist as of this moment, and everyone was treated completely without bias, your average white person is still getting a 30-meter head-start in a 100-meter footrace. And that's a cycle, with the way schools are funded through property taxes. The poor stay poor because they get jack crap for education and they don't have old money to fall back on.

And then you throw back in the reality that aversive racism IS very much alive, and you should see why despair and drugs and crime are common themes in black America.

The "American Dream" is just that... a dream. Not reality. The principle of "you work hard, you get what you want" DOES NOT EXIST FOR EVERYONE. The playing field isn't level.

 

Can you name something else that would be a root cause of racism against Blacks in America? Past slavery would be a sufficient answer to that.

Agree that there will come a point that you have to move on. It'd still appear your version of slavery being relevant is people who want reparations, handouts, and excuses for not doing anything to improve themselves...?

So a guy who robs someones house, carjacks someone with a gun, then gets caught by the cops can say to the judge "Slavery in American put me here, your honor. If I would have gotten my reparations I wouldnt have needed to do that" and expect to receive a lighter sentence?

Well if you think thats what the people who speak about slavery want, or if you think they're really high in number, your opinion I guess...

 

Here is a interview with a former slave

Interview with Aunt Harriet Smith


http://www.zshare.net/audio/133444287020d108/




From the site:http://www.thebma.org/
I realized that I haven't put out one of these interview episodes in a while. Even though they can be difficult to understand at times, I enjoy listening to these old slave interviews. First of all, just to hear the voices. There's something spooky and comforting about them to me, and the stories that they tell are truly priceless. The interviewers can get annoying at times, with their condescending attitudes, what sometimes sounds like fake interest, and constant requests for singing. But to listen to their voices is to hear both weariness and strength, victim and victor, and reminisces of times long since past (even though these recordings were made not that long ago...this one for example in 1941...that's my grandparents time). I also can't help but notice hearing deep American tradition and dialect that has lingered even today. I truly appreciate these recordings, and enjoy sharing them on this podcast. I hope that y'all enjoy them too. Peace.

 

First, the original root of racism against Blacks and codified slavery in America was on purpose to prevent a slave revolt. During early colonial days, slavery was never permanent, but was renewed by contract every few years. Europeans and Africans (often from the Caribbean), often kidnapped, but sometimes voluntarily, would come to the colonies as indentured servants, would work out their term and be offered freedom, but nothing else. Some would take their freedom, but some would sign up for more indentured servitude, as they were conditioned to need their master. However, with slave (indentured servant) rebellions in the late 17th Century, the need to divide the slaves became apparent. Taken as a whole, the African and European slaves could have wreaked much havoc in colonies whose economies were based on cash crops, but if they were divided and pitted against one another, they gave up their strength. So plantation owners began freeing the white slaves, and giving them a very small piece of land to call their own, and conditioning them to think that they were better than the black slaves. Then, in some colonies, they began restricting the rights of free blacks to further gain this separation.

All that being said, there is significant evidence that racism increased many times in the South due to Reconstruction, with free Northern blacks being placed in governmental leadership positions and punishing ex-Confederates while turning a blind eye to rampant corruption within the carpetbagger government. The thought is that had plantation owners not been punished, and maybe even compensated for the loss of their slaves (like in England), that the transition from slavery to working with free blacks (as sharecroppers, etc.) would have been smoother.

 

This is where we fall apart, there is no debt owed to anyone in this country.

As I have said before the only reperations that should be paid are to people who were a slave, or by someone that owned a slave.

At some point you have to recognize that it happened and move on.

And no race should be singled out for any special treatment, that is counter to what is American....work hard, and acheive, level the playing field and let the best man/woman win.

I think that we should be putting our efforts into getting EVERYONE educated....especially the people in lower economic situations.

Reperations to me are just asking for a handout......

And realize that I am part American Indian, and don't think we deserve reperations either.

DD

 

I also went to a desegregated public high school in Louisiana, and I must say in general this sentiment occurs from whites and blacks in Louisiana. This probably can explain the low state education ranking.

 

I agree with these points.

About education, yes we should definitely work on getting everyone educated but there are many people, some on this board too, that feel very strongly against this (helping the poor get educated). I think it is impossible to have EVERYONE educated but we should at least try harder on this. I think it is sad that many states are having to trim away their educational budgets, get rid of teachers, combine classrooms, etc. Can you imagine if a president and their staff asked for $100 billion for education in this country instead of defense? Then they kept feeding those funds annually into the educational system? I'm not talking about Bush either, I mean ANY president. I mean that is $2 billion per state. Education and the importance of it is where it starts and this country needs to work hard on that.

Reparations, I'm not sure if RR was asking for those or not but I don't agree with them either. I believe any type of reparations made to any group would do more harm than good.

 

"How can you blame them? If it weren't for us they'd still be eating each other in the jungles of Africa."

This is what my 72 year old part-time secretary said during one of our discussions regarding a black gentleman who was rapping at the top of his lungs in our professional building. I (as a young man) made the comment that he must have been raised poorly to have such disrespect. Her reply was above.

Is slavery still relevant? No, not the institution itself. But, the "suppression of blacks" mentality definitely is. For all the reasons mentioned though.

Yes, slavery/Jim Crow created a victim mentality in many (but not all) blacks. The flip side though is that they had a reason to feel victimized. The Great Society, the War on Drugs, etc. all hurt them (whether intentional or not) and there is certainly lingering effects. There is still overt racism in this country in many parts and there is even more "thoughts only" racism. You know, the kind of racism where a business owner may not avoid hiring a black employee because he's black, but he'll certainly watch him closely?

And then some of it is that slavery/Jim Crow/racism created a natural counter movement in the black community. Not as much today, but still there, is the underlying idea of "it's not good to be white." Every heard the words "uppity Negro" or "House Ni***r" or heard someone say "stop actin white" or "you're so white you're an oreo" or any of thing else along those lines?

We are still a long way from separating ourselves as a nation from slavery/Jim Crow/racism, and I don't think the three can be separated from each other at all. They are all extensions of the original sin.

 

LOL - I understand that, and yes, racism has a very long way to go...but we are making major progress.

Don't shoot the messenger, just deal with the message.



DD

 

Give me some examples.

 

When I speak on reparations. . . . .i know it will never happen
hell . .. America cannot simply say it is wrong. .


HOWEVER
let's talk REPAIR-ations

Let the GREAT disparity in ability to get Loans
and if they are received the disparity in interest Rates.

Disparity in money to schools

Disparity in disproportionate sentences for the same crimes

Hell . . .in Houston 1600 People were TAZED last year
over 300 Hispanic
over 200 White
over 1000 Black
It is IMO racist thought that will simply say . . well black folx just get out of hand more
Consider that Black folx are not even the majority here

You can BUILD a criminal
poor schools
one person's youthful indescretions all allow to go unrecorded
while another's is put on a resume of criminality
which of course starts the process of CUTTING off opportunities.

There are a bunch of disparities and barriers in place
institutional and real . . .
Level Playing field???? not hardly

Rocket River

 

as a black man, I have conflicting emotions regarding reparations. on one hand, I - and my college-educated family - have felt the sting of racism. we've experienced the 30 yard penalty, so to speak. we know the uphill struggle: even with Masters and Doctorates. jobs are still difficult to find. high paying ones w/eaual opportunity are even moreso.

my parents legacy is that of providing a middle class existence 4 their children but having no $ to leave behind or contribute 2 their kid's education/future. and, so, we start all over again.

that said, I don't know that reparations solve anything. I mean, unless we're talking serious money, the majority of people will just use that money 2 continue living check 2 check. a couple grand would do more harm than good, imo, because of the neg backlash that would inevitably come afterwards from nonblacks because of a perceived unjustified payment.

the only $ answers I see to our plight is 2 become biz owners. you don't get rich "working 4" someone else. just doesn't happen, with very few exceptions.

 

An excellent post and one that goes to the heart of why slavery is still relevant. Prior to the Civil Rights movement Africans as a group were really the only immigrant to largely not come here by choice seeking a better life but were forcibly sent here. Most of the Europeans who came here came with the idea of a better life free from the constraints of Europe, the American Dream, and the generation of immigrants to have come from Asia and other parts of the World since then have also had that idea. OTOH Africans were brought here against their will so the American Dream didn't exist to them since they had no choice in it and no promise of benefit from it.

While its true that many immigrants were mistreated, exploited and had generally hard lives there still is a vast difference between choosing to come here versus being forcibly brought here. For instance many of the Chinese immigrants who were forced to work on the railroad didn't end up being successful and while people might say that current Chinese immigrants and their recent descendents did well so the experience of essentially being slaves working on the railroads or things like exclusion acts had no affect on the Chinese. That ignores that for the Chinese that lived here prior to Civil Rights most of them lived very poor in overcrowded Chinatowns or as struggling farmers. In fact the stereotype of the Chinese before Civil Rights was as lazy and degenerate.

 

That's true with anyone. It's not a statement about black people or white people (or any other color people). You can be frugal and invest a modest salary and retire well, but if you want to be wealthy before then, you have to go out on your own and take your own risks.

 

Here’s something to think about as far as the "reparations" issue, and affirmative action in general. Ask yourself: do you believe that the purpose of reparations and affirmative action is to correct historical injustices? If you do, you’re missing the point. We all have historical injustices in our family history. My grandmother was Yugoslavian, and she was in prison for close to three years when the Russians were exerting a lot of control in her homeland. She eventually escaped to Australia.

Now, should my family be getting reparations because my grandmother had injustices done to her? No. Absolutely not. Because reparations and affirmative action are NOT ABOUT THE PAST, THEY ARE ABOUT THE PRESENT. As a white person in America, I don’t see myself being discriminated against, or really having any cultural or socio-economic disadvantages of any kind. That is not true for black people, and it is not true for many, many other minorities.

You talk about Chinese immigrants. Well sure, it sucked for them back in the day. But they have a much, much easier time of it right now than blacks do. Heck, most of the stereotypes associated with Asians today are positive ones when it comes to the working world.

 

How ironic.

 

fact: comparing free immigrants to slaves is lunacy

edit: for example, one of the most brutal aspects of slavery was the journey here. no this doesn't have any bearing on this dicussion, but its just an example of where the analogy falls apart. families torn apart, blacks in this country have no sense of their homeland, this analogy is so stupid I don't know where to begin with