Does the Battier/Gay trade still bother/frustrate/infuriate you to this day?

look at BULLS. How many top picks did thwy got after MJ? Winner Mentality is very underestimated here by fans.

 

Regardless of whether or not Rudy Gay has become a stud, the trade was made for one simple reason: TO WIN NOW. Have we WON NOW? Hell, we haven't even won one playoff series. Instead, the one tradeable asset we had was spent to get a role player (who is above average in his role, no doubt).

Spew out excuses all you want, injuries what-have-you; bottom line is, the trade was sold as making us instant contenders. That hasn't been the case. So yeah, it bothers me still

 

All stats are subject to interpretation. But please provide a link for your comment that Hollinger "knows Rudy Gay is a bad player". Show it.

I watch...and re-watch games. And I don't have to run stats to know Battier is a one-dimensional over-rated defender whose entire offense is standing in the short corner. The short corner being the only place on the court he can put in a shot and usually when no one is rotating to him.

Juwan Howard = Rudy Gay??? ROFLMAO. And Battier is what....a "value" because he makes MLE $? Who on this planet trades for an MLE player when they are in the Lottery?

Battier has stunk in 2 Rocket's playoff series. His "tough" assignment being Kirilenko. Since you're not big on Per's and/or stats, I guess you probably won't want to read how poorly Battier compares to his Rocket peers...Battier had the 5th worst PER and a horrible -12.3...

http://www.82games.com/0708/playoffs/0708HOU.HTM

I have never in my 30+ years of watching the NBA seen a player get more mileage from being so consistently mediocre. Since you're comparing Howard and Rudy Gay...I wonder if anyone would have traded a Lottery pick for Kurt Rambis?

 

But did you notice that last year they chose S.B. over Bowen as USA nation teamer.

 

I don't understand this argument you keep putting forward, and I think it undercuts the actual legitimate points you make. If your view is that you learn about players by watching the game and not relying on stats, why in the world would you cite John Hollinger's PER of all things as your only source for analysis? And who declared PER to be some holy grail stat that's the final word on what a player is worth?

It's well known that even Hollinger does not consider PER to be final word player ranking system. It's purely meant to be a statistical summarizer, a tool to help bring together all the easily measurable information. And there is some debate in the stats community on how good it is at even that.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

[rquoter]
The ratings are NOT intended to be the final word on how a player performs, but are designed to inform the debate. There are several factors that aren't included in the ratings. The most notable is position defense - the part that doesn't involve blocked shots and steals. But factors like durability as well as less tangible ones (leadership, for example) are others that can't be rated numerically.

Nevertheless, it's a start, because it takes the statistics that are available and boils them down in a way that's easy to understand. It interprets the things that we do know - how many shots a guy made, how many rebounds, etc. - in a much more systematic way than anything I've seen to date.[/rquoter] link

 

If u don't think posey is as good if not better defender than battier, u don't watch basketball. The reason why those grizzlies teams were pretty good is because they had both. Both are mirror images except posey makes big shots in the playoffs. This whole thing about contributing to wins and losses never explains the variables.

Memphis got knocked out the playoffs and traded battier to houston and williams and posey to miami for eddie jones. Gasol started the season on the injured list and missed the 1st 30 games or so then the coach was fired. Can u honestly tell me that if u put Battier back on that team without williams and posey that they would win anymore games. Since u like stat watching, go and find Tracy's win loss his last yr in orlando. Go find Bibby in Memphis or Terry in atl or miller in cleveland. I could go on and on because stats are misleading. If u have good coaching, which is what the rox have and a good philosophy, then its easier to contribute to wins, but it doesn't hide the better player. I'm not a PER guy, bu his PER, AV and VI are much higher than shanes. I like shane but I'm willing to bet that if Dallas can get harris and stack for jamison, boston got ray allen for their top ten lotto pick, the rox could have shopped and gotten more for that pick. Not to mention u gave up a player. It was a unneccessary move and the rox are still paying the price. That's eveident by the gm saying we need more size and atheleticism at the wing spot. He said we need a guy that can get his own shot. Who does that sound like?

 

Your chronology is off. Posey was traded from Memphis after the 04/05 season, in which they won 45 games. The Grizzlies won 49 games the following season, with Battier and after Posey was traded. Was that all Eddie Jones?

In what sense are you not a PER guy if you're using PER to help bolster your argument? I do think there is some merit to this argument, by the way.

Basically, instead of getting Gay we brought in Battier and Wells in that offseason. At the time, that looked pretty good to me. But Wells didn't work out in either of the past two years (neither coach really liked him, by my understanding). Battier provided about what we would expect, but he appears to be in a decline and we haven't won anything in the playoffs. I think, looking back, it's hard to be enthusiastic about it. I think it made sense as a short term deal, but as time passes it will probably look worse and worse.

 

Between Rafer Alston and Shane Battier, I've never seen such mediocre players receive so much praise. Who cares about offense and putting the ball into the basket when you have "intangibles" and cheap glue.

For the record, Posey, Udoka, and Bowen are just as good if not better than Battier, but none of those guys were acquired by giving away a lottery pick. Simply put, it was a horrible trade.

 

i think jvg's defensive mentality played a part in the trade..and i don't think we suffered...


can someone post rudy gay highlights??

 

looking back is 20-20. rudy gay coming into next year being the offensive player that he is would def. help us next yr.

but the rudy gay that was drafted wouldn't have helped us.

though we haven't gotten out of the first round so battier hasn't really helped us. we've been at the same level having wesley defend the best player as having battier.

 

till this day, i still think that battier adds more value to the rox team than gay.

However, i still think that with the 8# draft, rox have over-valued battier. A draft pick that high should worth a borderline all-star or a 2nd/3rd team all nba team veteran on the decline , especially when everyone is rating that batch of youngsters so highly.

Too bad portland pick roy before rox. A back-court of roy and tmac will be great.

 

well said on the Hollinger stat. last year it was the Lenovo stat, this year it was the Hollinger stat, next year it will be some mathematical whiz sports reporter who invents another productivity chart... none of it matters in the long run...

 

most of us aren't look back, we've been making the same point since draft night

 

Gay and Battier are very different players and have very different values.

My view about this trade is this. If we were giving up on McGrady, we should (and probably would) get some young offensive player like Gay. However, it is obvious that we were (and still is) banking on the Yao-McGrady core. With T-Mac on the team, Gay will not be developed like he has been in Memphis. You want a complimentary, rather than a similar, wing player alongside McGrady.

Is banking on McGrady a good bet? I honestly don't know. To me, it's all about his health. Anyways, the reasoning is somewhat similar to how the Spurs not taking Scola. They thought Scola would not develop behind Duncan and they were still banking on Duncan to have a few high quality years.

Also, it is increasingly clear that including Swift was meant to be a negative, rather than a positive, factor to Memphis. I was initially mad that they would give Stromile to sweeten the pot, when in fact, they should ask Memphis for some sweetener. Now I figured taking Swift off of our hands was probably the equivalence of giving us a second round pick.

 

think it this way:

Gay would be no more than a GayMAC under JVG just like VMAC.
He'd either quit the team or the team will deal him for Ryan Bowen.

That trade was a great trade.

 

I only brought up stats because people want to bring up the grizz record with shane vs gay. Nobody ever brings up shanes win/loss effect when tracy is out. Go look those numbers up. Simply put, the rox thought shane could play the 4. I heard all offseason about how he's only a inch shorter than howard and he could guard the dirk type. Opening game and boozer is killing shane now the rox had to turn to hayes. A huge miscalculation by a man that doesn't look at size. I'm not saying Gay would avg 20ppg on this team, but with the looks guy get off tracy, it would be the easiest 17pts in the league. Anyone notice how good the rox are when rafer was shooting 42% and avg 17ppg? Imagine someone averaging that while also finishing the break and attacking the rim. The rox shouldn't have never let mr moneyball hold a conversation about a trade to the logo. How many times have the logo came up short on a trade? I can picture that phone call in my dreams.

 

Hell yes it does bother me... even til this day.

Why? Think about it... the Grizzlies this year was in full tank mode. They got rid of Gasol for Kwame Brown!! Imagine if Battier was still on Memphis, what could we trade for him? Luther Head/Bobby Jackson?

Battier was not worth the 8th pick (Gay). This trade has got to go down as one of the worst moves this franchise has ever made. Mark my words, Gay will be an all-star for years to come. He's exactly what the team needs right now, athleticism, scoring, youth. Too bad for us.

 

Number 8 picks in the draft are not always guaranteed to be star players.

Where was Eddie Griffin drafted again?

DD

 

What about Dirk, pierce, amare, marion, and t-mac

 

Battier was drafted at #6.

Yi, Brandon Roy, Martell Webster, Josh Childress & Chris Kaman ring a bell? All #6's since Battier.